Can I be conscripted if I apply for visa extension?

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Can I be conscripted if I apply for visa extension?

Postby rac1201 » 02 Dec 2004, 04:56

I know there has been a lot of discussion about military conscription and I've read through pretty much every post dealing with it. But I have a question of my own.

I was born in Taiwan but moved to the US when I was 6. I have a US passport and everytime I go to visit Taiwan, I have always used my US passport.
I have contacted the TECO in New York about my concerns with military conscription and they have said that as long as I don't overstay my visa, military conscription will not be a problem.

However, in a few months, I'm planning on staying in Taiwan for 1-2 years. My visa allows me only 30 days. I plan on doing visa extensions so I can live there for 2 years. (actually...visa extensions + leaving/entering Taiwan every 4 months)
My question is, if I apply for a visa extension at the police station, will that allow the government to track how long I have been in Taiwan?

Thanks for any help you can provide.
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Postby Satellite TV » 02 Dec 2004, 17:08

Yes, they can also track your period of stay thru immigration. You will have an entry and exit record when you enter and leave an immigration point, namely the airport.

I expect some of you two year stay is going to end up as part of your 4 year stay, including doing military service.

You plan on staying 1 - 2 years, and if you work or study you will be an illegal immigrant. If you get caught you'll end up in the military for sure.
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Re: Can I be conscripted if I apply for visa extension?

Postby Yellow Cartman » 02 Dec 2004, 21:44

rac1201 wrote:I have contacted the TECO in New York about my concerns with military conscription and they have said that as long as I don't overstay my visa, military conscription will not be a problem.


As long as you don't break their laws such as overstaying a visa, you'll be ok. They have no cause to snatch you for conscription if you enter Taiwan with your US passport and have not broken any laws.

rac1201 wrote:However, in a few months, I'm planning on staying in Taiwan for 1-2 years. My visa allows me only 30 days. I plan on doing visa extensions so I can live there for 2 years. (actually...visa extensions + leaving/entering Taiwan every 4 months)


First, your 30 day visa - is this a landing visa, which are non-extendable, or some other type of visa?

rac1201 wrote:My question is, if I apply for a visa extension at the police station, will that allow the government to track how long I have been in Taiwan?


Each time you extend at the Foreign Affairs police, they'll have a log of your stay. Take a look at the MOI, NPA website for more information.

Also, when you extend, you will need to provide a reason for the extension. You can extend for work, study, familial relations up to 2 times (e.g. 6 months if you entered with a 60-day visa) before you need to make a visa jump. All of these extension reasons require documentary proof.
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Postby Lord Lucan » 02 Dec 2004, 22:40

How are you going to be conscripted if you have no household registration? Who is going to draft you? Where will they send the draft notice? You're not on the draft register if you've entered as a US citizen on a US passport. I know people with ARCs who've been here for years on US passports. They've never used their ROC Overseas Chinese passports and therefore never registered a hukou and therefore are not registered anywhere that could generate a draft paper.
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Postby Yellow Cartman » 02 Dec 2004, 23:18

hexuan wrote:How are you going to be conscripted if you have no household registration? Who is going to draft you? Where will they send the draft notice? You're not on the draft register if you've entered as a US citizen on a US passport. I know people with ARCs who've been here for years on US passports. They've never used their ROC Overseas Chinese passports and therefore never registered a hukou and therefore are not registered anywhere that could generate a draft paper.


Yes, excellent point re: hukou. That's they way Taiwan controls its population. If you're not on one, then you're considered outside of the system and hence an untouchable for purposes of conscription. So, you're back to overstaying the visa as your biggest concern.
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Postby Satellite TV » 02 Dec 2004, 23:34

Yellow Cartman wrote:
hexuan wrote:How are you going to be conscripted if you have no household registration? Who is going to draft you? Where will they send the draft notice? You're not on the draft register if you've entered as a US citizen on a US passport. I know people with ARCs who've been here for years on US passports. They've never used their ROC Overseas Chinese passports and therefore never registered a hukou and therefore are not registered anywhere that could generate a draft paper.


Yes, excellent point re: hukou. That's they way Taiwan controls its population. If you're not on one, then you're considered outside of the system and hence an untouchable for purposes of conscription. So, you're back to overstaying the visa as your biggest concern.


No, they know you're an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don't have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained.... ooops
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Postby Tetsuo » 02 Dec 2004, 23:48

Satellite TV wrote:No, they know you're an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don't have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained.... ooops

Um, no, because as far as they know you're American if you come in on a US passport. For all they know, you could just happen to have the same name as a Taiwanese resident. But unless they can deadset prove you're the same guy, I don't see how they can just go "Oi! You look Chinese - GET INTO OUR ARMY"
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Postby Satellite TV » 03 Dec 2004, 23:54

Tetsuo wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:No, they know you're an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don't have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained.... ooops

Um, no, because as far as they know you're American if you come in on a US passport. For all they know, you could just happen to have the same name as a Taiwanese resident. But unless they can deadset prove you're the same guy, I don't see how they can just go "Oi! You look Chinese - GET INTO OUR ARMY"


try PLACE OF BIRTH.... TAIWAN or China it's in the passport..

In any case on the immigration form you have to write place of birth... so thats a dead giveaway as well....
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Postby Yellow Cartman » 04 Dec 2004, 00:22

Satellite TV wrote:
Yellow Cartman wrote:
hexuan wrote:How are you going to be conscripted if you have no household registration? Who is going to draft you? Where will they send the draft notice? You're not on the draft register if you've entered as a US citizen on a US passport. I know people with ARCs who've been here for years on US passports. They've never used their ROC Overseas Chinese passports and therefore never registered a hukou and therefore are not registered anywhere that could generate a draft paper.


Yes, excellent point re: hukou. That's they way Taiwan controls its population. If you're not on one, then you're considered outside of the system and hence an untouchable for purposes of conscription. So, you're back to overstaying the visa as your biggest concern.


No, they know you're an ROC citizen as place of birth is Taiwan, and have an ID number even if you don't have an ID Card.

Then one day when you go to the airport to leave you get detained.... ooops


But the US passport will have the English name, not the Chinese name. There's no way they could track your Chinese name and ID and match it to your English name. Simply impossible to do as no documents are in English.

Given that, you're saying that the ROC can still detain a US national just because your US passport said born in ROC?

That's very interesting.
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Postby ac_dropout » 04 Dec 2004, 03:09

The key is the Hu Kuo family registry. If you're not in it, then your safe.

Detaining at the airport because of place of birth is ROC is not enough.

How do they know you didn't serve already?

If you have no documents linking your Chinese names and you have no ROC registry number, you're basically a foriegner.
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