Origins of the 1985 rule.

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Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby wirez666 » 20 Sep 2008, 13:29

Can anyone tell my why it is that if your born after 1985 you have cannot stay in taiwan for a cumulative period of 182 days (to avoid conscription) whereas if your born before 1985 you can just leave once every four months?

Seems a little unfair. Can someone shed light on this?
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby Big Fluffy Matthew » 20 Sep 2008, 13:32

wirez666 wrote:Seems a little unfair.
It's a little unfair that Taiwanese are allowed the best of both worlds with dual nationality and foreigners aren't.
Er.... thingy.
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby Satellite TV » 21 Sep 2008, 01:02

Big Fluffy Matthew wrote:
wirez666 wrote:Seems a little unfair.
It's a little unfair that Taiwanese are allowed the best of both worlds with dual nationality and foreigners aren't.


Plenty of foreigners are allowd dual nationality. I know plenty of foreigners with dual nationality.
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby wirez666 » 14 Jun 2009, 15:20

Big Fluffy Matthew wrote:
wirez666 wrote:Seems a little unfair.
It's a little unfair that Taiwanese are allowed the best of both worlds with dual nationality and foreigners aren't.


FYI its not my fault that I am Taiwanese. I wasn't even born there, and Taiwan won't let me renounce my citizenship till I'm 35. I don't see how it gives me the best of both worlds. Taiwanese citizenship is more of a liability than anything else. No real benefits.
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby IceEagle » 05 Jan 2010, 23:09

wirez666 wrote:Can anyone tell my why it is that if your born after 1985 you have cannot stay in taiwan for a cumulative period of 182 days (to avoid conscription) whereas if your born before 1985 you can just leave once every four months?

Seems a little unfair. Can someone shed light on this?


Just a guess, but I know that in 2000 Taiwan changed their nationality law to allow a child to inherit from the mother. This was made retroactive to 1980 but no further back.

Why? Well, anyone born in 1980 or under would have been still a minor (under 20 years old) at the time the change was made. So those who were already legal adults were grandfathered under the old version of the law.

If the change to the conscription law was made in 2005, this would make perfect sense. At this point, those who were already of conscriptable age were grandfathered into the old scheme - to prevent a sort of double jeopardy where they would have been fine under the old rules but without knowing about the change in advance are now in trouble with the new rules.
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby Chris » 05 Jan 2010, 23:22

Satellite TV wrote:
Big Fluffy Matthew wrote:
wirez666 wrote:Seems a little unfair.
It's a little unfair that Taiwanese are allowed the best of both worlds with dual nationality and foreigners aren't.


Plenty of foreigners are allowd dual nationality. I know plenty of foreigners with dual nationality.

Depends on where they're from. Are these foreigners all Australians?

To get ROC citizenship, one is required to show proof that one has renounced one's previous citizenship. I understand that Australians can do this, and then get their original citizenship back in 6 months. But Americans can't do this without ensuring the entire naturalization process.
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby IceEagle » 05 Jan 2010, 23:24

IceEagle wrote:If the change to the conscription law was made in 2005, this would make perfect sense. At this point, those who were already of conscriptable age were grandfathered into the old scheme - to prevent a sort of double jeopardy where they would have been fine under the old rules but without knowing about the change in advance are now in trouble with the new rules.


Example, if you had a ABT born in 1984, who enters Taiwan on an overseas Chinese Passport for 4 months starting in Jan 1 2004, left in April 1 2004, came back in May 1 2004, then left again in August 1 2004, then came back in September 1 2004 and finally left in November 1 2004: under the old rules this person remains in overseas status and is not draftable, but then after the law changes our ABT is suddenly draftable unless he is grandfathered into the old provisions.
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby IceEagle » 05 Jan 2010, 23:35

Chris wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:Plenty of foreigners are allowd dual nationality. I know plenty of foreigners with dual nationality.

Depends on where they're from. Are these foreigners all Australians?

To get ROC citizenship, one is required to show proof that one has renounced one's previous citizenship. I understand that Australians can do this, and then get their original citizenship back in 6 months. But Americans can't do this without ensuring the entire naturalization process.


I think he meant he knew plenty of Aus-US dual nationals, or US-UK dual nationals, etc.

Technically, it seems like an American who renounced could go back by entering on a work visa or a spousal visa and then apply for a green card and then naturalisation. I've never heard of anyone doing so successfully, though, and Americans who renounce have their names added to a list that is likely reviewed by USCIS on the application for a visa.

I do know about a case where a person successfully renounced his US citizenship, then he tried to claim the right of residence in the US, leading to the US state department revoking his renouncement. Seems risky, but on the Certificate of Loss of Nationality it says you have a year to apply to have your case reconsidered.

Additionally, if you renounce US citizenship or nationality as a minor, within 6 months of turning 18 you can apply to have it restored.

If you renounce US citizeship to get the CNL to give to Taiwan, and then became naturalised as a ROC citizen, and then had your renouncement of US citizenship revoked, I'm not sure if you will have your ROC citizenship revoked or not.
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Re: Origins of the 1985 rule.

Postby tommy525 » 06 Jan 2010, 01:21

wirez666 wrote:
Big Fluffy Matthew wrote:
wirez666 wrote:Seems a little unfair.
It's a little unfair that Taiwanese are allowed the best of both worlds with dual nationality and foreigners aren't.


FYI its not my fault that I am Taiwanese. I wasn't even born there, and Taiwan won't let me renounce my citizenship till I'm 35. I don't see how it gives me the best of both worlds. Taiwanese citizenship is more of a liability than anything else. No real benefits.


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