The decline of Asian marriage

[It is me again]

Interesting short article about the decline of Asian marriage. The author notes that marriage at older age, staying single, higher education for women, less children will lead to a challenge to the traditional typical Asian "family values".

http://www.economist.com/node/21526350

[antarcticbeech]

Yes I read that. 37% of Taiwanese women aged 30-34 are single. 27% of marriages in 2002 involved a foreign bride.

Women want to marry up; men like to marry down.

Happy hunting.

[steelersman]

Perfect if you are a Western male between the ages of 30 and 50.

[jjohnston2020]

The truth is that the vast majority of people are interested in marriage. It's also true that married people are on average happier. The fact that people are not getting married, yes, does reflect the fact that women are freer than before. But it also reflects the fact that there is a mismatch, that they are not finding the right partners perhaps, or the cultural notions of marriage are unfair to them. This mismatch is not a good thing, and there are many collateral consequences for both men and women in society. I don't know if matchmaking services are enough; it might be necessary to rethink traditional roles of women and of marriage. After all, matchmaking has always existed, but old cultural notions are less liable to change than the improving economic conditions in our societies.

[Isha]

but old cultural notions are less liable to change than the improving economic conditions in our societies.

27% marriages to foreigners already shows that change is here.

I am sure all the stats are correct in every article about birthrate, marriage and single women but what I see around is, either everyone is engaged or married with one or more kids. Single women are around but very few.

Men have reached their saturation point for education, career etc as society has paid attention since starting. But women are getting it now and setting new standards for men. My understanding says that you can't push beyond their saturation point and unless women are ready to change their attitude of marrying up, there are going to be lot more single women in future.

[ChewDawg]

When I worked in government in Taiwan, I'd say 75% of the women in the organization I worked in between 20 and 50 were single. Lots of these women travelled as part of their job, had multiple degrees, and were quite intelligent. However, I think they also wanted someone with similar or better qualifications, pocketbooks and world views. In my opinion, that's often the problem with both hiring practices and with marriage choices in general. People often want to hire people or marry people with similar educations, world views, political persuasions etc. rather than go for true diversity. Hell, you could even say it for website forums as well as this website definitely showed preferences (for mod choices, lack of suspensions etc.) for people with similar political opinions in the past. How many were chosen by pure competency versus the ability to kiss ass/be a boy or girl scout/say the PC things?

For people seeking marriage, such high expectations often means they remain single as no one is good enough. For hiring, it often means that people are often hiring someone who is like them rather than their alter ego/counterbalance. This can be negative for an organization development.

For websites, it can mean tribalism and palace favorites.

[Huseng]

I reckon this is a natural development in much of Asia for the simple fact that traditional social arrangements and divisions of labour are unnecessary.

If you lived in Taiwan fifty years ago without convenience stores and when people had a lot less disposable income, having a wife at home cooking everything from scratch made not only financial sense, but practical sense. That might not be fair by present day standards, but in those circumstances it made sense. Also, if you have limited paid jobs available in your economy, then having household economies where much of the family is engaged in self-sufficiency for daily needs is only natural. In that context, marriage and children are basically essential unless you're in a religious commune setup.

As the decades of economic growth rolled on and the population shifted from household economies to a paid workforce (either in the factory or in the office), marriage has become less practically relevant. You can be a single person and never have to worry about food production or having sufficient family members to run your household economy (because now such things are non-existent for most urban dwellers) because convenience stores and the capitalist economy take care of all that.

As long as you have the money (which isn't that hard to come by for most Taiwanese people nowadays), you -can- live without family, whereas in the old days you would have struggled financially and physically without family.

[GuyInTaiwan]

Huseng: They can't though. I would say that many people, be they single or part of a family, are barely functional. There are all sorts of massive negative changes in the pipeline that will hit within the next twenty years, if not sooner. An obvious one is a looming obesity epidemic. Look at how many little fatties there are at elementary schools now. No one has time to cook decent food because they're grinding it out at the office, so everyone eats convenient food that is crappy.

Another one is the financial situation of many young people. They consume like there is no tomorrow, perhaps because it's expected of them or their friends do it, or perhaps because it's retail therapy because of their meaningless, isolated, urban lives. Never the less, I posit that the current generation of young people is rapidly catching up to many in the West with their financial profligacy. Despite living in the most prosperous time in history, many will be worse off/less secure than their parents.

To some extent, these kinds of things (both here and abroad) are symptoms of a breakdown in traditional values.

[trubadour]

I'd echo the things most people are have said here already. In my situation, I begin to realise, a wife and kids just looks like a whole heap of BS that I currently don't have to deal with. I deal instead with a kind of loneliness. It's a fair trade-off. The loneliness seems more authentic than any artifice of a nuclear family I could create around me might promise to relive.

I think the wider cultural significance of the decline in marriage and traditional values is indicative of a huge issue for what remains of society. In fact, I think we have to admit that our cultural practices are clinging on to old values which in a large part do not exist any more in the way that they used to - that is in the situation in which they arose. The marriage is just one part of a connected kind of living that has disintegrated in modern society.

Indeed, it is interesting that even with all the hype about our being 'increasingly connected' in the internet age, the opposite is in fact true. We are almost but not yet as disconnected from our environment, from our employment, from our culture and from the family (even merely our own natural families) as it is possible to be.

It's obvious in our daily (self-indulgent, consumerist) lives if we have the eyes to see, but we still cling (perhaps valiantly, perhaps blindly, perhaps lazily) to the old ideas - even when they no longer are able to provide their share of the meaning and fulfilment they used to - when they and we, were part of a truly grounded, connected, cultural life.

[steelersman]

I'd echo the things most people are have said here already. In my situation, I begin to realise, a wife and kids just looks like a whole heap of BS that I currently don't have to deal with. I deal instead with a kind of loneliness. It's a fair trade-off. The loneliness seems more authentic than any artifice of a nuclear family I could create around me might promise to relive.

I think the wider cultural significance of the decline in marriage and traditional values is indicative of a huge issue for what remains of society. In fact, I think we have to admit that our cultural practices are clinging on to old values which in a large part do not exist any more in the way that they used to - that is in the situation in which they arose. The marriage is just one part of a connected kind of living that has disintegrated in modern society.

Indeed, it is interesting that even with all the hype about our being 'increasingly connected' in the internet age, the opposite is in fact true. We are almost but not yet as disconnected from our environment, from our employment, from our culture and from the family (even merely our own natural families) as it is possible to be.

It's obvious in our daily (self-indulgent, consumerist) lives if we have the eyes to see, but we still cling (perhaps valiantly, perhaps blindly, perhaps lazily) to the old ideas - even when they no longer are able to provide their share of the meaning and fulfilment they used to - when they and we, were part of a truly grounded, connected, cultural life.

Trubador, I like your post but I wonder if the old ideas actually provided fulfillment. I would guess that many people were not fulfilled by marriage and family but that it was the cultural norm and hard to not be part of.

I am sure that many women in the past got married since they needed a husband as a provider or their parents forced them into marriage.