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Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Moderator: hansioux

Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby sofun » 21 Aug 2014, 02:56

It had occurred to me that it is feasible to learn to speak and write Seediq with Kana. It works for me because the two systems are visually different and they calibrate each other. As shown below, I found it extremely useful in enhancing fluency and memorization.

Qmuyux! Sange ta texan!
ぐむゆっ!さんげ だ ではん!
It's raining. Let's take a break.


https://www.facebook.com/pages/說賽德克語/427909957322125

Maha su ini mteeyux
まは す いに むてえゆっは。
What's the rush.
maha su (You go); ini (where); mteeyux (hurry)
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby sofun » 21 Aug 2014, 03:26

sofun wrote:Qmuyux! Sange ta texan!
ぐむゆっ!さんげ だ ではん!


sange (rest);
ta (we);
texan (one time)

The default vowel is "u う", as seen in the slow-down spoken by the native speaker. For examples, words beginning with Qm~, Mt~ are treated easily as:
qmuyux ぐむゆっ
mteeyux むでえゆっ

 
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby hansioux » 04 Feb 2015, 15:12

sofun, since you never created a thread on using Kana to transcribe Taigi, I don't know where else to post this.

This is a Japanese era Taigi grammar book, published around 1935.
http://210.240.194.97/memory/TGB/thak.asp?id=901&page=1

Starting from page 13, it described the Kana transcription system.
http://210.240.194.97/memory/TGB/thak.a ... 01&page=14
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby Chris » 04 Feb 2015, 22:24

Why kana? Why not Egyptian hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiform?
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby Steve4nLanguage » 05 Feb 2015, 00:37

My boyfriend is Truku (太魯閣族) and speaks the language fluently (I love listening to him speak it with his family and friends). He said Truku speakers can understand Seediq without a problem. Anyway, he's taught me a few words but I have a heck of a time trying to figure out how to write them using Roman letters. To my ears, though, it would be more difficult using kana across the board because Truku has consonant clusters that don't lend themselves to kana. Plus, it has sounds that don't really exist in English or Japanese.

Here are some words I know, written in my own way. If anyone with Truku knowledge can suggest better transliterations, I'm all for it.

Madusu = Hello
Maduku = I'm fine
Maduwukan = Delicious
I ni gu ngũda = I don't know (ngũ is like a nasal sound)
Snagan = Hangover (my favorite word!)

The next two words have a very breathy, extended "H" sound (but not throaty like Arabic glottal sounds), for lack of a better description, which I write as h~
Naghh~ = Bad
Ndaghh~ei = Children

EDIT: I just thought about this...I should record him saying the words and then ask for transliteration suggestions.
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby hansioux » 05 Feb 2015, 10:09

Steve4nLanguage wrote:My boyfriend is Truku (太魯閣族) and speaks the language fluently (I love listening to him speak it with his family and friends).


that's awesome!!! Hope there will be more people speaking any languages native to Taiwan fluently.

Steve4nLanguage wrote:He said Truku speakers can understand Seediq without a problem.


Technically they are the same tribe. In fact Truku is short for Seejiq Truku. There are three sub-divisions under Seediq, Seejiq Truku, Seediq Tkdaya and Sediq Toda. A portion of Truku broke off due to political reasons that took place under the Japanese era. To my knowledge, there are some sound shifts in the way they pronounce a few consonants. For those Truku that broke off from the rest of the Seediq (because some remained), the word Seediq now means "others (people)" rather than "people", and they now exclusively use "Tkdaya" to mean people.

Steve4nLanguage wrote: Anyway, he's taught me a few words but I have a heck of a time trying to figure out how to write them using Roman letters. To my ears, though, it would be more difficult using kana across the board because Truku has consonant clusters that don't lend themselves to kana. Plus, it has sounds that don't really exist in English or Japanese.


yeah, romanization makes much more sense.

Steve4nLanguage wrote:Here are some words I know, written in my own way. If anyone with Truku knowledge can suggest better transliterations, I'm all for it.

Madusu = Hello
Maduku = I'm fine


*su is suffix for you
*ku is suffix for I

at least that's how it is in most Formosan-Filinino austronesian languages.

Steve4nLanguage wrote:Ndaghh~ei = Children


Several songs in Seediq Bale (the movie) referred to children as laqi (/laqi/) in Seediq.
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby sofun » 05 Feb 2015, 13:37

Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby sofun » 05 Feb 2015, 13:43

Chris wrote:Why kana? Why not Egyptian hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiform?

Why not Kana?
But what is it about Egyptian hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiform that is worth mentioning from your perspective?
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby hansioux » 05 Feb 2015, 16:59

sofun wrote:
Chris wrote:Why kana? Why not Egyptian hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiform?

Why not Kana?
But what is it about Egyptian hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiform that is worth mentioning from your perspective?


I think he was trying to say they are equally random as using Kana.
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Re: Learning Seediq (with roman alphabet and kana)

Postby Chris » 05 Feb 2015, 17:04

hansioux wrote:
sofun wrote:
Chris wrote:Why kana? Why not Egyptian hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiform?


But what is it about Egyptian hieroglyphs or Sumerian cuneiform that is worth mentioning from your perspective?


I think he was trying to say they are equally random as using Kana.

Yup.

Why not Kana?


Japanese kana, being syllabaries, are not well suited to languages with a complex phonetic system, such as with consonant clusters, final consonants, and sounds like uvular stops, guttural fricatives, etc. Sure you could modify them, but alphabetic scripts like Roman and Cyrillic have proven much more adaptable when it comes to fitting to a wide variety of languages. Sure, they're far from perfect, with plenty of modifications, diacritical marks, digraphs, sound reassignments etc. required, but the Roman and Cyrillic alphabets (with Arabic a distant third) have proven the most flexible.

I could see Kana being used more successfully with a consonant-cluster-poor languages like Tahitian.

And not all alphabetic languages at that. There's some indigenous language in Indonesia in which there was an attempt to fit Korean Hangul to it, but it was a failure, in part because the language had both initial and final L and R, which Hangul cannot accommodate gracefully.
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