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Marie Lin, M.D.

Moderator: hansioux

Re: Marie Lin, M.D.

Postby sofun » 11 Sep 2014, 05:30

sinification.

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Re: Marie Lin, M.D.

Postby hansioux » 11 Sep 2014, 10:35

That's 台灣地里圖 (Taiwan Geography Diagram) from about 1684 to 1722. The displayed portion of the diagram shows no signs of Sinification, so I am not quite clear on why sofun made that statement on the diagram.

Most of the houses and clothing shown in this diagram are clearly Astronesian. The bull fighting in the middle is pretty interesting, but also not of Han influence. All the location names are phonetic translations of Aboriginal tribes in Pingdong.

There are a few Qing office buildings and a fort with bamboo walls that are not of Austronesian design. Not exactly Sinification though.
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Re: Marie Lin, M.D.

Postby cybertai » 19 Sep 2014, 11:15

hansioux wrote:The paper merely points out that the majority of the Taiwanese Holo and Hakka people in Taiwan are sinified Taiwanese Aboriginals of the Austronesian branch.


Most Hoklo and Hakka people in Fujian and Guangdong have Baiyue ancestry. But I don't consider Baiyue to be the Austronesian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue
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Re: Marie Lin, M.D.

Postby sofun » 19 Sep 2014, 12:07

cybertai wrote:
hansioux wrote:The paper merely points out that the majority of the Taiwanese Holo and Hakka people in Taiwan are sinified Taiwanese Aboriginals of the Austronesian branch.


Most Hoklo and Hakka people in Fujian and Guangdong have Baiyue ancestry. But I don't consider Baiyue to be the Austronesian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiyue


Baiyue is not Austronesian, you're right.Baiyue is contiental. But th Taiwanese depicted in the above picture was likely of Austronesian Stock, at least partially, considering that the picture depicted the very south part of Taiwan, and the type of dwelling shown. (See if you can find 東港 in the picture. That's in Pingdong.)

I do not rule out the possibility of Hoklo Taiwanese living in austronesia-styled dwelling. But that also makes one wonder whether they were "from China."
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Re: Marie Lin, M.D.

Postby hansioux » 10 Feb 2015, 15:17

Update with autosomal DNA studies:

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2014/14081 ... ms5689.pdf

It confirmed that as Austronesians migrated westward, a large amount of Austro-Asiatic genetic admixture through Y-chromosomes. And that the Austronesian genetic pool was separated from the mainland 10,000 years to 30,000 years ago.

What's new is this study provided an estimation of admixtures and these admixture occurred after the Austronesian expansions. Which means, the Austronesians would have settled on the coast of SE mainland and islands for a good long while, before new waves of Austro-Asiatic migrations arrive. That is something I haven't anticipated. I always thought the Austronesians would have gotten to SE mainland and discover Austroasiatic people already living there.

Since there are archeological evidence of Formosan jade artifacts in SE such as Vietnam 5000 to 3000 years ago, and objects from SE found in archeological sites around Taiwan. It is possible that such trade only died out after new waves of Austro-Asiatic migrations arrived at SE, 4000 to 3000 years ago.

Don't know if that is true, although I always imagined the Negritos lived on most islands prior to the Austronesians.

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Re: Marie Lin, M.D.

Postby sofun » 23 Mar 2016, 20:02

I noticed the links were dead. Here's another attempt to repost them. The first one is the 1757AD census, and the 2nd is the 1777 census.

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