Click here to go to our new forums at http://tw.forumosa.com
If you are a Forumosan Regular, when you log in for the FIRST TIME, you must RESET your password by using the Password Recovery system.

Usernames on the new forums must not contain any SPACES and must end with LETTER or a NUMBER; if yours does, you will be prompted to change your Username
Contact us at admin(at)forumosa(dot)com or @forumosa on Twitter or on our Facebook Page if you have any questions or problems logging back in

WWII Bombing Raids against Taiwan

Moderator: hansioux

Postby 4nr » 28 Jun 2006, 19:43

Recent ebay finds: some of photos of Taiwan being bombed. These links probably won't last long, so I suggest anyone that in intersted to save the pics. I can post them here for safe keeping if anyone requests.

Penghu

AlcoholFactory
4nr
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 352
Joined: 06 Dec 2004, 08:30
Location: Taipei



Re: WWII Bombing Raids against Taiwan

Postby Ducked » 25 Oct 2015, 09:43

I've read somewhere that there were also some sweeps by British carrier-based aircraft who were part of a covering force for the Iwo Jima landings.

Japanese airforce capability on Taiwan would be minimal by that time so strafing would perhaps have given them something to do.
We reach for the sky. Neither does civilisation.

(Incidentally, if the search button is your friend, you must have some bloody useless, dysfunctional friends)
User avatar
Ducked
"Drinks for the House!"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 16:46



Re:

Postby Ducked » 25 Oct 2015, 14:23

Comrade Stalin wrote:
MJB wrote:One thing is for certain...An invasion of Formose first would have changed the entire face of the Pacific campaign, and possibly shortened the war.


The beaches in Taiwan were and remain very poor for amphibious operations. In addition, the population in the Philippines supported the US and aided the liberation. In Taiwan, the US would have been going against an armed hostile population. The invasion of Okinawa was a cakewalk in comparison with what one of Taiwan would have been.


Old, speculative post of course, but the last point seems pretty unlikely. Okinawan's maybe aren't/weren't "strictly" Japanese, but Taiwanese aren't/weren't either, and I can't see fanatical civilian Taiwanese resistance to an American invasion as very likely.

IIR my reading correctly, civilian resistance wasn't a big factor in Okinawa, though civilians did suffer a lot from both sides.

Here around Tainan there are some nicely constructed pill-boxes on the beaches and up the rivers which are probably relics of Japanese defences (though I suppose they could be later Kuomintang defences against China). In Kaoshiung (Gaoxiong) it looks as if the mountain with the lighthouse on top (dunno the name) was set up as a mini Mt Surabachi, with tunnels and such, but nothing like the scale of the Normandy defences is anywhere evident.

in general the west coast is flat and open, with not much scope for cliff and cave defences.

All the fish ponds (assuming they were there in WW2) might limit inland exploitation a bit, but the allies had lots of amphibious armoured vehicles (LVT's) which would probably have given them an edge even in that context. If Japanese forces held the mountains, they might have been hard to dislodge, but why would you bother?

So, can't see it being worse than Okinawa.

Still wouldn't have been much fun, though.
We reach for the sky. Neither does civilisation.

(Incidentally, if the search button is your friend, you must have some bloody useless, dysfunctional friends)
User avatar
Ducked
"Drinks for the House!"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 16:46



Re: WWII Bombing Raids against Taiwan

Postby Tempo Gain » 25 Oct 2015, 19:21

A better comparison would probably be the Philippines. That wasn't much fun for sure. It came close to happening, and whatever happened the result wouldn't have been in doubt. I wonder what civilian casualties would have looked like. I'd guess the US showed some kind of minimal attention to them at least when retaking the Philippines.
Image

"Being alive is the meaning." -- Joseph Campbell

"Well I don't guess it has to be, but that's the way we like it." -- Roger Waters

There's only one thing left for me to do momma I gotta ding a ding dang my dang a long ling long
User avatar
Tempo Gain
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 12859
Joined: 16 Jul 2004, 22:41
Location: Taipei



Re: Re:

Postby hansioux » 27 Oct 2015, 15:01

Ducked wrote:Old, speculative post of course, but the last point seems pretty unlikely. Okinawan's maybe aren't/weren't "strictly" Japanese, but Taiwanese aren't/weren't either, and I can't see fanatical civilian Taiwanese resistance to an American invasion as very likely.

...

So, can't see it being worse than Okinawa.


Like there still are people who aren't strictly Chinese but heavily supports the KMT, there were plenty of Taiwanese people who weren't strictly Japanese, but believed in the Anti-American brain washing so much, they were willing to give their lives for the protection of Taiwan, if not Japan. There were about 3 million military aged non-ethinic Japanese Taiwanese men at the time, 425,000 volunteered, 200,000 got enlisted, mostly put under transportation corps. Among all the aboriginals, less than 5,000 were deployed, but had the Americans landed in Taiwan, they would have made a difference.

One thing that Okinawa didn't have is a large enough terrain for deep mountain/jungle guerrilla warfare. That type of terrain was abundant in Taiwan. If the Americans invaded Taiwan, professionally trained Aboriginals would be deployed on their home turf, armed with modern weapons, and would likely be joined by their tribesmen. During the war in the Pacific, over 70% of Aboriginal volunteers gave their lives. They were more likely to give their lives when it comes to "protecting their home."
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
User avatar
hansioux
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6457
Joined: 28 Jul 2012, 14:41
In Taiwan since: 30 Jun 2006



Re: Re:

Postby Ducked » 27 Oct 2015, 20:58

hansioux wrote:
Ducked wrote:Old, speculative post of course, but the last point seems pretty unlikely. Okinawan's maybe aren't/weren't "strictly" Japanese, but Taiwanese aren't/weren't either, and I can't see fanatical civilian Taiwanese resistance to an American invasion as very likely.

...

So, can't see it being worse than Okinawa.


Like there still are people who aren't strictly Chinese but heavily supports the KMT, there were plenty of Taiwanese people who weren't strictly Japanese, but believed in the Anti-American brain washing so much, they were willing to give their lives for the protection of Taiwan, if not Japan. There were about 3 million military aged non-ethinic Japanese Taiwanese men at the time, 425,000 volunteered, 200,000 got enlisted, mostly put under transportation corps. Among all the aboriginals, less than 5,000 were deployed, but had the Americans landed in Taiwan, they would have made a difference.

One thing that Okinawa didn't have is a large enough terrain for deep mountain/jungle guerrilla warfare. That type of terrain was abundant in Taiwan. If the Americans invaded Taiwan, professionally trained Aboriginals would be deployed on their home turf, armed with modern weapons, and would likely be joined by their tribesmen. During the war in the Pacific, over 70% of Aboriginal volunteers gave their lives. They were more likely to give their lives when it comes to "protecting their home."


Who knows? Post above on supply drop to aboriginals suggests they weren't uniformly pro-Japanese, as does their history of anti-Japanese colonial resistance.

Re mountain/guerrilla warfare, as I said, why would you bother?

The arguments for taking Taiwan would presumably be use/denial of ports and airfields. These are on the coast/in the coastal plains. Specific threats against them from the mountains might require neutralisation, but generally containment would be enough.

Sorties onto the exposed plains would face destruction by US firepower. Plenty of examples of that pattern in, say, the Burma endgame, and plenty of examples of bypassed Japanese forces left to starve.
We reach for the sky. Neither does civilisation.

(Incidentally, if the search button is your friend, you must have some bloody useless, dysfunctional friends)
User avatar
Ducked
"Drinks for the House!"
 
Posts: 4119
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 16:46



Re: Re:

Postby hansioux » 28 Oct 2015, 11:37

Ducked wrote:
Who knows? Post above on supply drop to aboriginals suggests they weren't uniformly pro-Japanese, as does their history of anti-Japanese colonial resistance.


Just want to point out Filipinos weren't uniformly anti-Japanese and pro-American either. Most elites cooperated with the Japanese, such as José P. Laurel, and there were the Bureau of Constabulary, and the Makapili. People like Benigno Ramos who fought for independence from America worked with the Japanese. It was ultimately the IJA's horrendous actions that drove most Filipinos back to pro-Americanism, as the US' plan for an independent Philippines was already almost there.
Don't confuse me with your reasonableness.
User avatar
hansioux
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6457
Joined: 28 Jul 2012, 14:41
In Taiwan since: 30 Jun 2006



Re: WWII Bombing Raids against Taiwan

Postby Icon » 28 Oct 2015, 17:25

Your wishes may be granted, as the gummit, as part of the commemoration of the 70 anniversary of the Victory against Japan, now will have especially included in the curriculum the Taiwanese opposition against the Japanese regime.
Lo urgente no deja tiempo para lo importante. Mafalda.

None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Eat the delicious food. Walk in the sunshine. Jump in the ocean. Say the truth that you’re carrying in your heart like hidden treasure. Be silly. Be kind. Be weird. There’s no time for anything else.
User avatar
Icon
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 19075
Joined: 09 Feb 2006, 18:03
Location: Xindian



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
Previous




Return to Culture & History



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 2 guests