Religion and Violence

[tommy525]

Please note that this thread has been split from a discussion on racism in Taiwan, over here.

HH: You have to distinguish between race and culture (of which religion is a subset). One cannot chose to be or not be black. One can chose to be or not be a Muslim.

Not completely true. Many muslims have been killed by their families or others for turning their backs on their religion.

I don't think as many Buddhists or Christians suffer this fate in todays world. In the past perhaps.

[Omniloquacious]

HH: You have to distinguish between race and culture (of which religion is a subset). One cannot chose to be or not be black. One can chose to be or not be a Muslim.

Not completely true. Many muslims have been killed by their families or others for turning their backs on their religion.

I don't think as many Buddhists or Christians suffer this fate in todays world. In the past perhaps.

Indeed! Apostasy is a crime in many Muslim countries, and even punishable by death in some Muslim states, such as Iran. Hence, many people born into Islam do not have the choice of formally disaffiliating from it, unless they are willing to accept the direst consequences for so doing.

[GuyInTaiwan]

It's still a choice though. There have been plenty of times in history when people have faced undesirable consequences for certain choices. That's why people migrate or have revolutions. Anyway, the original point about Muslims was about them facing prejudice in the West. No one is going to stop them from leaving Islam in the West. As such, my original assertion that a black (American) can't chose whether he or she is black but a Muslim (American) can, still stands.

Also, the fact that Buddhists and Christians don't suffer the same consequences for apostasy probably indicates that as religions go, those are far more civilised religions.

[headhonchoII]

The current forms of Christianity definitely seems more civilised, going back to the Spanish inquisition I doubt the heretics would agree with us though. I guess most religions have modernised but Islam hasn't, that's probably the crux of it.

[GuyInTaiwan]

Well, at its heart, Islam was founded by a violent man. Christianity and Buddhism weren't. Quite the opposite. Regardless, much of modern Christianity is essentially a glorified Sunday market/cake baking competition. As an atheist, I'm no fan of Catholicism or Anglicanism, but at least they've had the good grace to become largely an irrelevant joke and move over so science and secular humanism can assume their proper role. Not so with Islam and some forms of Christianity, which is why I regard those things with complete disdain. Having spent the past few hundred years doing our best to defang Christianity, we should not be welcoming Islam into our midst as something worthy of respect. It's not. It's completely antithetical to the modern world. As such, it should be challenged and mocked at every turn for being the product of a backward, and hopefully by-gone, age.

[pgdaddy1]

As such, it should be challenged and mocked at every turn for being the product of a backward, and hopefully by-gone, age.

While completely forgetting that many Moslems are the most hospitable, warm and welcoming people you could wish to meet. And I speak as a Jew, by the way. I am not in position to have a theological argument (although your claim that Mohammed was a violent man needs to be backed up)- but talking about mocking a religion without any regards for the people that follow it seems very wrong indeed.

[Chris]

Having spent the past few hundred years doing our best to defang Christianity, we should not be welcoming Islam into our midst as something worthy of respect. It's not. It's completely antithetical to the modern world. As such, it should be challenged and mocked at every turn for being the product of a backward, and hopefully by-gone, age.

Well, there are different types and intensities of Islam. Just as Christianity has its Eric Rudolphs, Timothy McVeighs and Fred Phelpses, Islam also has its nutters who believe killing and hatred are virtues. But Christanity also has plenty of great people who wouldn't dream of hurting anyone; the same is true with Islam.

The problem is religious extremism/fundamentalism, not the religions themselves.

[jdsmith]

Well, at its heart, Islam was founded by a violent man. Christianity and Buddhism weren't.

Didn't jaysus flip out and violently smash up a nightmarket or something?

[California]

Ah yes finally the off-topic spiral into religion. This pleases me.

[jdsmith]

Ah yes finally the off-topic spiral into religion. This pleases me.

Sure, why not. What's racism without a god willing to fight for it on your side?