Religion and Violence

Re: Are Taiwanese People Racist?

Postby Super Hans » 17 Oct 2011, 21:23

While completely forgetting that many Moslems are the most hospitable, warm and welcoming people you could wish to meet. And I speak as a Jew, by the way. I am not in position to have a theological argument (although your claim that Mohammed was a violent man needs to be backed up)- but talking about mocking a religion without any regards for the people that follow it seems very wrong indeed.


I disagree entirely.
I think that religion in general is the single most damaging entity to the human race and is the one single thing that keeps humans from advancing and working together as a single unit, and as such, deserves a hell of a lot more than a mocking.
Of course, mocking people that choose to follow a religion is wrong - but saying that mocking a concept is wrong - and when it comes down to it, that's all religion is, regardless of how many millions of people believe in this concept - is unreasonable.
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Re: Are Taiwanese People Racist?

Postby fenlander » 17 Oct 2011, 22:55

Super Hans wrote:
While completely forgetting that many Moslems are the most hospitable, warm and welcoming people you could wish to meet. And I speak as a Jew, by the way. I am not in position to have a theological argument (although your claim that Mohammed was a violent man needs to be backed up)- but talking about mocking a religion without any regards for the people that follow it seems very wrong indeed.


I disagree entirely.
I think that religion in general is the single most damaging entity to the human race and is the one single thing that keeps humans from advancing and working together as a single unit, and as such, deserves a hell of a lot more than a mocking.
Of course, mocking people that choose to follow a religion is wrong - but saying that mocking a concept is wrong - and when it comes down to it, that's all religion is, regardless of how many millions of people believe in this concept - is unreasonable.


How is mocking the people that follow it because they follow it any different to mocking the belief that they follow? :ponder:
But anyway good post and I mostly agree.
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Re: Are Taiwanese People Racist?

Postby pgdaddy1 » 18 Oct 2011, 01:49

Super Hans wrote:
While completely forgetting that many Moslems are the most hospitable, warm and welcoming people you could wish to meet. And I speak as a Jew, by the way. I am not in position to have a theological argument (although your claim that Mohammed was a violent man needs to be backed up)- but talking about mocking a religion without any regards for the people that follow it seems very wrong indeed.


I disagree entirely.
I think that religion in general is the single most damaging entity to the human race and is the one single thing that keeps humans from advancing and working together as a single unit, and as such, deserves a hell of a lot more than a mocking.
Of course, mocking people that choose to follow a religion is wrong - but saying that mocking a concept is wrong - and when it comes down to it, that's all religion is, regardless of how many millions of people believe in this concept - is unreasonable.



Hmmm. Personally, although Jewish by birth and upbringing, I am an atheist, with similar views to you about religion and its negative effect on civilisation. But that doesn't mean that I am going to mock others who decide to follow the "path of God". It's their choice, and if it makes them happy then who am I to criticise them, as long as they don't hurt others. I am happy to mock my own religion by the way, in a light-hearted kind of way.

I am beginning to sound like Tommy now, time for me to go to bed.
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Re: Religion and Violence

Postby Super Hans » 18 Oct 2011, 02:25

fenlander wrote:How is mocking the people that follow it because they follow it any different to mocking the belief that they follow? :ponder:
But anyway good post and I mostly agree.


pgdaddy wrote:But that doesn't mean that I am going to mock others who decide to follow the "path of God". It's their choice, and if it makes them happy then who am I to criticise them, as long as they don't hurt others. I am happy to mock my own religion by the way, in a light-hearted kind of way.



I think you can draw similarities between religion and the Loch Ness Monster. Now, I don't believe for one minute that there is a giant reptilian creature gracing the depths of this famous Scottish body of water any more than I believe that there is some old guy wish a wispy beard gracing the heavens. I mock the very idea of Nessy. However, that doesn't mean to say that I mock the millions of people who believe Nessy exists. On the contrary, as with people who hold a religious belief, I take their reasoning seriously and I am interested in why they believe in what they believe. I also take great interest in some of the cultures of religion, and have a great respect for the devotion of people who follow a particular belief. Also, I hold great respect for the amazing architecture and feats of engineering borne out of religion which, over millennia, have given millions of people around the world enjoyment and representation.
But the very idea that one can place such trust, faith and belief in an unproven entity, in an era where such things as drought, famine, lightning, flooding and the nights drawing in can be explained through the use of science, has always struck me as bizarre.

Goodnight, Tommy.
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Re: Religion and Violence

Postby fenlander » 18 Oct 2011, 06:19

Super Hans wrote:
fenlander wrote:How is mocking the people that follow it because they follow it any different to mocking the belief that they follow? :ponder:
But anyway good post and I mostly agree.


pgdaddy wrote:But that doesn't mean that I am going to mock others who decide to follow the "path of God". It's their choice, and if it makes them happy then who am I to criticise them, as long as they don't hurt others. I am happy to mock my own religion by the way, in a light-hearted kind of way.



I think you can draw similarities between religion and the Loch Ness Monster. Now, I don't believe for one minute that there is a giant reptilian creature gracing the depths of this famous Scottish body of water any more than I believe that there is some old guy wish a wispy beard gracing the heavens. I mock the very idea of Nessy. However, that doesn't mean to say that I mock the millions of people who believe Nessy exists. On the contrary, as with people who hold a religious belief, I take their reasoning seriously and I am interested in why they believe in what they believe. I also take great interest in some of the cultures of religion, and have a great respect for the devotion of people who follow a particular belief. Also, I hold great respect for the amazing architecture and feats of engineering borne out of religion which, over millennia, have given millions of people around the world enjoyment and representation.
But the very idea that one can place such trust, faith and belief in an unproven entity, in an era where such things as drought, famine, lightning, flooding and the nights drawing in can be explained through the use of science, has always struck me as bizarre.

Goodnight, Tommy.

Nice post.
I remember once saying to a born again Christian "I believe in fairies". He said "that is stupid". I said "so is to believe that Jesus was born of a virgin and is the son of God". He said "no it is not that is a religion and is totally different". I said "I agree with you about the first part that believing in Fairies is stupid".

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Re: Religion and Violence

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 18 Oct 2011, 11:31

Religion is the problem though. Okay, we can look at the wonderful architecture, music or anything else inspired by it, but good architecture and music don't need to be inspired by God. Once we remove all of the hocus pocus and killing of homosexuals, infidels or any other minority, we can still have a system of ethics that resembles secular humanism in a remarkable way. All the rest is bad science and hate speech. If I were to publish a secular book and found a secular organisation based upon the crap in these religious books, I'd be branded a nutter. Once I got a few hundred followers, I'd be branded a dangerous nutter and probably arrested. If I had one billion followers, I'd be taken seriously. People engage in a complete suspension of disbelief when they regard the world's major religions.

pgdaddy: Mohammed was a warrior. This is common knowledge.
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Re: Are Taiwanese People Racist?

Postby heimuoshu » 20 Oct 2011, 12:26

Super Hans wrote:
While completely forgetting that many Moslems are the most hospitable, warm and welcoming people you could wish to meet. And I speak as a Jew, by the way. I am not in position to have a theological argument (although your claim that Mohammed was a violent man needs to be backed up)- but talking about mocking a religion without any regards for the people that follow it seems very wrong indeed.


I disagree entirely.
I think that religion in general is the single most damaging entity to the human race and is the one single thing that keeps humans from advancing and working together as a single unit, and as such, deserves a hell of a lot more than a mocking.
Of course, mocking people that choose to follow a religion is wrong - but saying that mocking a concept is wrong - and when it comes down to it, that's all religion is, regardless of how many millions of people believe in this concept - is unreasonable.

I think that selfishness is the single most damaging entity to the human race. In the name of progress, we have polluted the planet and screwed everything up we have.
I think that people who live here, and I know a few, who are continuously on the wrong side of the law and always complain about how things work here, should maybe for once look at themselves. What they consider to be damaging and bad might be made better if they stop thinking the world revolves around them. It's the sun, whether you are religious or not.
I think people who have children and then endanger them through their behavior and selfishness should not be blessed with having them, and they should be mocked. It's easy to complain about not letting them wear helmets, but dangerous driving from some of the foreigners I have seen here when there are children in the car or doing something stupid like going to the beach when there is a storm or a typhoon because daddy wants to surf, is worse.
So there we go, selfishness, self-righteousness and irresposibility. These are mockable sins. Religion? Hardly.
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Re: Religion and Violence

Postby Joschka » 20 Oct 2011, 13:00

If you think it is more correct to say the earth revolves around the sun than the earth revolves around you, then you don't understand Relativity.

The first leads to much simpler orbital mathematics, but it isn't more correct.
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Re: Religion and Violence

Postby Super Hans » 21 Oct 2011, 22:36

I think that selfishness is the single most damaging entity to the human race. In the name of progress, we have polluted the planet and screwed everything up we have.


Wouldn't you agree that the epitome of selfishness is religion? In the name of progress, governments have used religion as a tool of war for eons. Religion has made a sin all that is enjoyable for the human race. Religions have persecuted millions for the pleasure of one single entity - that of god.
People around the world follow blindly a god that rewards its followers by taking away loved ones, causing pain and suffering to millions through famine and drought and illness. By randomly choosing people to have car crashes and giving them a life of pain and suffering. It rewards children who are yet unborn to into this world and who have as yet done nothing wrong a life of misery through aids, cancer, disfigurement and deformity or a hole in the heart.
It has scared people into compliance and still does, especially in places like the middle east.
Religion is the biggest representation of self righteousness imaginable. It is irresponsible in the worldwide wars and deaths and diseases that it perpetuates. It is irresponsible in that it gives millions around the world a false sense of hope and has deluded people into following a cause which promises paradise. a heaven or virgins in return for a lifetime dedication to worship.

I think people who have children and then endanger them through their behavior and selfishness should not be blessed with having them, and they should be mocked. It's easy to complain about not letting them wear helmets, but dangerous driving from some of the foreigners I have seen here when there are children in the car or doing something stupid like going to the beach when there is a storm or a typhoon because daddy wants to surf, is worse.


People are naturally selfish and there is no denying that - it comes together with the survival skills required for being a mammal. I'm curious as to why you specifically mention foreigners in your post.
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Re: Religion and Violence

Postby heimuoshu » 22 Oct 2011, 00:50

Super Hans wrote:
I think that selfishness is the single most damaging entity to the human race. In the name of progress, we have polluted the planet and screwed everything up we have.


Wouldn't you agree that the epitome of selfishness is religion? In the name of progress, governments have used religion as a tool of war for eons. Religion has made a sin all that is enjoyable for the human race. Religions have persecuted millions for the pleasure of one single entity - that of god.
People around the world follow blindly a god that rewards its followers by taking away loved ones, causing pain and suffering to millions through famine and drought and illness. By randomly choosing people to have car crashes and giving them a life of pain and suffering. It rewards children who are yet unborn to into this world and who have as yet done nothing wrong a life of misery through aids, cancer, disfigurement and deformity or a hole in the heart.
It has scared people into compliance and still does, especially in places like the middle east.
Religion is the biggest representation of self righteousness imaginable. It is irresponsible in the worldwide wars and deaths and diseases that it perpetuates. It is irresponsible in that it gives millions around the world a false sense of hope and has deluded people into following a cause which promises paradise. a heaven or virgins in return for a lifetime dedication to worship.

I think people who have children and then endanger them through their behavior and selfishness should not be blessed with having them, and they should be mocked. It's easy to complain about not letting them wear helmets, but dangerous driving from some of the foreigners I have seen here when there are children in the car or doing something stupid like going to the beach when there is a storm or a typhoon because daddy wants to surf, is worse.


People are naturally selfish and there is no denying that - it comes together with the survival skills required for being a mammal. I'm curious as to why you specifically mention foreigners in your post.

All that you have posted attacks religion on a philisophical level. There are arguments for and against what you have said but you aren't interested in that are you?
Charity starts at home and I mentioned foreigners because they are the people who annoy me the most because of their self-righteous BS.
People who buy sofas or computers from friends and then have to be begged to actually pay for the stuff because they just don't pay what they owe. I have never had that problem with a Taiwanese friend and don't know any who have.
I have never met a foreign girl who got pregnant with a Taiwanese guy and then the guy fails to live up to his responsibility but I have met many foreigners who have. Granted I have seen many Taiwanese men being total pricks but just like the foreigners they are always those who seem to complain the most.
I have met many girls who got pregnant with a foreign guy and then the guy just insists on an abortion (and bitches about how many abortions are done in Taiwan the next day in the pub) or just starts treating the girl like shit. I have also met some couples here where the foreigner got treated badly but guess what, they complain less and try harder than the high horse idiots I have to listen to some times. When they see their kids you can be sure they act responsibly, stay away from dangerous activities like drinking and driving or the likes and make the most of what they have.
I have also never met a Taiwanese person who continuously cries over how bad religion is while there own life is in tatters but I have met many foreigners who do.
Pardon if I upset you. I'm sure you stay on the right side of the law, treat your family well and act responsibly, but there are way to many people who don't and cry the moment things don't go their way. There are so many more things wrong with the world than religion.
WW1 and WW2 had nothing to do with religion.
Global warming has nothing to do with religion (unless you feel that it might be a political farce or that God is punishing us)
Religion does not deserve the bad reputation it is getting and many people thing they sound smart of they knock it, but then so be it. I totally disagree with your take on it. I feel there are more important issues at hand and you don't seem to have responded to what I said in my previous post and I am sure that this will fall into some anti-religion chat long before you or anyone reply to what I said in this post.
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