Score another one for the religion of peace..

[Confuzius]

No one is comparing them. But just as those Jews don't represent the majority of Jews, neither do the muslims in flying bombs or blowing up restaurants represent the majority of muslims.

Good point...but here is the difference.

In the Jewish country (Israel) these people are on the fringe.

In the Muslim countries, these people are IN POWER, calling the shots and making decisions for the entire country.

Major difference. (not that it displays any sort of inherent difference between Judaism and Islam, but that is the difference in the current situation)

Fact

[cfimages]

No one is comparing them. But just as those Jews don't represent the majority of Jews, neither do the muslims in flying bombs or blowing up restaurants represent the majority of muslims.

Good point...but here is the difference.

In the Jewish country (Israel) these people are on the fringe.

In the Muslim countries, these people are IN POWER, calling the shots and making decisions for the entire country.

Major difference. (not that it displays any sort of inherent difference between Judaism and Islam, but that is the difference in the current situation)

Fact

Not fact.

The top 5 Muslim countries in terms of population are, in order. They account for approximately 50% of the world's Muslims.

Indonesia
Pakistan
*India (not Muslim majority)
Bangladesh
Egypt
Turkey (included if we're talking Muslim majority).

None of these countries have extremists running things, although we still don't know what will happen in Egypt.

[heimuoshu]

Meanwhile in the ME's leading democracy.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-501713_162- ... in-israel/

If we applied the same principles to the Jews as we do to Muslims, the report would read something like "Terrorists attack innocent voters", and no mention would be made that the vast majority of Muslims object to such tactics.

Alternatively, in this case we could call for a reformation of Judaism and consider military options or sanctions because the actions of a small minority obviously mean the majority agrees.

No? Didn't think so. And hypocrisy marches on.

Now I managed to catch the link.

Yes, we all know each religion has extremists.

I actually saw 3 Buddhist's jaywalk when leaving the temple last Sunday. Two scooters had to swerve and one nearly crashed into a binglang stand. I think the scooter divers were Daoist's and the binglang girl worshipped a 10NT coin called Fred.

I called the Apple daily and demanded their headline for the next day read; "Buddhist Terrorists attack commuters in vicious attack"

I am meeting with the UN on Thursday to discuss sanctions against Taiwan as well as a possible invasion of Taiwan.

I am putting together a Coalition of the Willing to lead the invasion if anyone is interested in joining. It will be a Shock and Awe approach.

On a more serious note, those Jews are idiots for sure. I hope they get prosecuted to the full extent of the law. However, this cannot be compared to flying two aircraft into buildings killing thousands, or a suicide bombing in a restaurant killing 50.

.

In South Africa in the Apartheids era we had "terrorist" attacks performed by the ANC. Now they are in power. You only need a few people to orchestrate something like you have mentioned before and ripping the entire religion to shreds is an indication that you have been indoctrinated by the western press that Muslims people and the Muslim religion is a bad apple. You can quote all you want but there are other facts that are conveniently ignored by the people you read to get your facts. Again, that's your opinion. It doesn't mean it is accurate.

[bigduke6]

Now your statements show the "dehumanizing effects of assholism". This is obviously not a personal attack as you have established in your earlier posts.

Nowhere did I rip the religion to threads. If you actually decided to read the whole thread, and not just get involved to have a go at me you would see this.

In fact there are quite a few posts here that do rip the religion to threads. Some have compelling arguments, and some don't.

Start on page one next time.

However, I still stand by my belief that in the last 50 years, the vast majority of terrorist acts and killings have been made by Muslim extermists.

If you want to do something useful or disagree, get your calculator and start counting.

Regarding the ANC, I think most of their bombing was against state or military installations. I also believe they only targeted white South Africans as a political statement. Trying to determine if they flew planes into the world trade center or blew up any buses in London.
If fact I also think the black on black violence before the 94 elections had a larger death count then the number of whites killed.

[GuyInTaiwan]

However, I still stand by my belief that in the last 50 years, the vast majority of terrorist acts and killings have been made by Muslim extermists.

To be honest, I think the IRA would probably be up there, though I can't be sure. Of course, I think the IRA are/were fucked. I also think Islam is fucked.

[Confuzius]

No one is comparing them. But just as those Jews don't represent the majority of Jews, neither do the muslims in flying bombs or blowing up restaurants represent the majority of muslims.

Good point...but here is the difference.

In the Jewish country (Israel) these people are on the fringe.

In the Muslim countries, these people are IN POWER, calling the shots and making decisions for the entire country.

Major difference. (not that it displays any sort of inherent difference between Judaism and Islam, but that is the difference in the current situation)

Fact

Not fact.

The top 5 Muslim countries in terms of population are, in order. They account for approximately 50% of the world's Muslims.

Indonesia
Pakistan
*India (not Muslim majority)
Bangladesh
Egypt
Turkey (included if we're talking Muslim majority).

None of these countries have extremists running things, although we still don't know what will happen in Egypt.

Oh, ahem...excuse me, I guess I should state "Muslim countries in the Middle East".

Is that better? I thought it was implied. (the fact that the majority of Muslims are of Asian descent rather than Arabic or Persian is just as unrelated to what I said).

[cfimages]

Oh, ahem...excuse me, I guess I should state "Muslim countries in the Middle East".

Is that better? I thought it was implied. (the fact that the majority of Muslims are of Asian descent rather than Arabic or Persian is just as unrelated to what I said).

Well in that case it could be said that it's a Middle East problem not a Muslim problem. Israel was led by the likes of Ariel Sharon for a number of years who has a lot of blood on his hands from massacres of civilians, and is Netanyahu is the current leader so it appears that the extremists are on both sides of the divide in that region.

[bigduke6]

However, I still stand by my belief that in the last 50 years, the vast majority of terrorist acts and killings have been made by Muslim extermists.

To be honest, I think the IRA would probably be up there, though I can't be sure. Of course, I think the IRA are/were fucked. I also think Islam is fucked.

Yes, the IRA were fucked. A little better since 97.

From what I have found out on the web the death toll in this conflict was;

Civilians killed by the IRA: 644
Civilians killed by British forces: 188

Any self respecting Islamic fundamentalist could rack up these numbers before breakfast.

Interestingly enough, the IRA lost 293 killed. The British army 655 killed and the RUC 272.

A big shout out to heimuoshu. GIT must also have been indoctrinated by the western press that Muslims people and the Muslim religion is a bad apple.
It must be a conspiracy.

Usually I have found his posts quite interesting.
Knowing now that he must have been brainwashed and indoctrinated is somewhat disappointing.

Mind you he did say he had a good teaching gig in Taiwan a few times. That should have raised the red flag right away. A rogue buxiban laoban must have subjected him to some powerful techniques.

[bigduke6]

Oh, ahem...excuse me, I guess I should state "Muslim countries in the Middle East".

Is that better? I thought it was implied. (the fact that the majority of Muslims are of Asian descent rather than Arabic or Persian is just as unrelated to what I said).

Well in that case it could be said that it's a Middle East problem not a Muslim problem. Israel was led by the likes of Ariel Sharon for a number of years who has a lot of blood on his hands from massacres of civilians, and is Netanyahu is the current leader so it appears that the extremists are on both sides of the divide in that region.

Hmmm.

Bali is not in the Middle East.
London is not in the Middle East.
New York is not in the Middle East.
Madrid is not in the Middle East.
Paris is not in the Middle East (1995).
Istanbul is not in the Middle East (2003).
Mumbai is not in the Middle East.
Cape Town is not in the Middle East(1998).

The list does go on, and I hope a Taiwanese city is never added to the list.

Make no mistake, Islamic terrorism is a worldwide problem.

What is going on in the Middle East is the reason often given as it is convenient.

If there was peace between Israel and the Palestinians, another reason would be found.

[GuyInTaiwan]

bigduke6: Here's my problem with the focus on body counts though, regardless of who is racking them up.

The response to terrorism has been completely disproportionate. More people die each year from automobile accidents, though I do think to some extent, the government is probably pretty close to lowering the death toll to the lowest possible level. However, many more people die each year from lifestyle related diseases that stem from obesity, excessive alcohol consumption, tobacco consumption and a whole host of other things. Yet no one, either in government or the general populace regards these things with anywhere near the same level of hysteria as they do terrorism, despite obesity related diseases killing several times as many people as terrorism. If the state really is necessary for saving people's lives and must therefore impose all sorts of heavy-handed measures (and I'm not saying it should necessarily do either), then simply on a death toll count, it's going after the wrong guys. Ronald McDonald was always a bigger culprit than Osama Bin Laden.

I do have a problem with Islam, but I think that's very easily solved by the following three-pronged attack:

1. Remove the financing that allows Islam to be a problem. The major priority there should be to get off oil. Without tons of easy money, the Islamic world will be forced to make a choice between living in the 7th century or the 21st century. This will come eventually anyway because oil supplies are finite, but we could hasten the process. It would also remove one of the major levers of support that Islamists have -- that the West is interfering in their countries -- and show them up for being what they really are when they continue aggressively to try to expand Islam.

2. Abandon multiculturalism and cultural relativism. Immigration programmes should aim at assimilation and the idea (for both immigrants and native citizens) that the Western tradition is not just another tradition, but that it is the greatest tradition that has ever existed and should be acknowledged as such. It is entirely impossible to simultaneously claim to have liberal beliefs and tolerate a religion or culture that is homophobic, for instance. It's simply impossible. Until and unless Islam edits such things from its religious works it is simply incompatible with modern, liberal nations. End of story. None of this implies that there aren't things that can be learnt from other cultures, but it does put things into perspective and say a) some values are not up for debate/relativistic, b) overall, the West is still vastly superior to other traditions.

3. Completely reform the welfare state such that it provides incentives to participate productively in a strong, fucntioning society based upon the Western, liberal tradition and its institutions.

I actually agree with the Islamists that the West is the root of the problem, though not for the same reasons as they do. The West is the root of the problem simply because it supports Islam economically through oil and because ideologically, it has abandoned itself. Liberalism grows on very infertile ground in the West these days whilst every other inferior and/or dangerous ideology is given ample room and nutrients to grow. The former is allowed to be debated (as is reasonable), but the latter are not allowed to be truly debated (which is unreasonable), because it's actually pretty obvious what the truth is once we get beyond the superficial nature of cultural relativism. In this respect, the people who should be the responsible custodians of our liberal institutions -- politicians, civil servants, journalists, teachers, etc. -- have been not only derelict, but sometimes actively complicit in the downfall of those institutions and society at large.