The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Fortigurn » 08 Jun 2012, 00:08

Teddoman wrote:Risk minimization behaviors, such as abstinence until marriage? I don't understand how that promotes group cohesiveness.


I was explaining specifically why 'the social benefits of doing so [joining a religious group] are significantly greater for religious groups than for other social groups'. I wasn't saying risk minimization behaviours promote group cohesion.
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby E04teacherlin » 08 Jun 2012, 00:48

Fortigurn wrote:
Teddoman wrote:Risk minimization behaviors, such as abstinence until marriage? I don't understand how that promotes group cohesiveness.


I was explaining specifically why 'the social benefits of doing so [joining a religious group] are significantly greater for religious groups than for other social groups'. I wasn't saying risk minimization behaviours promote group cohesion.

Your patience is commendable. It is clear that someone will do anything to find fault in what you are saying based on how they feel rather than what actual studies say but isn't that the general trend of religious discussion?
I'll try a more rational and logical approach.
Religious people, not only the Christians you are clearly referring to with your abstinence comment, are told that sex before marriage is wrong purely because it is really rude to leave all the guests waiting. It is supposed to be a party for everyone, bride and groom as well as the guests.
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Teddoman » 08 Jun 2012, 01:30

Fortigurn wrote:They don't. However, the social benefits of doing so are significantly greater for religious groups than for other social groups. The reasons for this are manifold, and the literature on the subject is vast. A few key points commonly agreed on, such as that religious groups typically promote risk minimization behaviours to an extent secular counterparts do not.

Fortigurn wrote:
Teddoman wrote:Risk minimization behaviors, such as abstinence until marriage? I don't understand how that promotes group cohesiveness.


I was explaining specifically why 'the social benefits of doing so [joining a religious group] are significantly greater for religious groups than for other social groups'. I wasn't saying risk minimization behaviours promote group cohesion.

I think what you wrote before was just written unclearly. Could you rewrite? I just don't understand how the last sentence connects to the first sentence in the top paragraph above.

E04teacherlin wrote:
Fortigurn wrote:
Teddoman wrote:Risk minimization behaviors, such as abstinence until marriage? I don't understand how that promotes group cohesiveness.


I was explaining specifically why 'the social benefits of doing so [joining a religious group] are significantly greater for religious groups than for other social groups'. I wasn't saying risk minimization behaviours promote group cohesion.

Your patience is commendable. It is clear that someone will do anything to find fault in what you are saying based on how they feel rather than what actual studies say but isn't that the general trend of religious discussion?
I'll try a more rational and logical approach.
Religious people, not only the Christians you are clearly referring to with your abstinence comment, are told that sex before marriage is wrong purely because it is really rude to leave all the guests waiting. It is supposed to be a party for everyone, bride and groom as well as the guests.

???
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby E04teacherlin » 08 Jun 2012, 09:49

Teddoman wrote:
E04teacherlin wrote:
Fortigurn wrote:
Teddoman wrote:Risk minimization behaviors, such as abstinence until marriage? I don't understand how that promotes group cohesiveness.


I was explaining specifically why 'the social benefits of doing so [joining a religious group] are significantly greater for religious groups than for other social groups'. I wasn't saying risk minimization behaviours promote group cohesion.

Your patience is commendable. It is clear that someone will do anything to find fault in what you are saying based on how they feel rather than what actual studies say but isn't that the general trend of religious discussion?
I'll try a more rational and logical approach.
Religious people, not only the Christians you are clearly referring to with your abstinence comment, are told that sex before marriage is wrong purely because it is really rude to leave all the guests waiting. It is supposed to be a party for everyone, bride and groom as well as the guests.

???

Humor. A joke.
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Fortigurn » 08 Jun 2012, 10:03

E04teacherlin wrote:Humor. A joke.


It's going to be a long day, isn't it?
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一閃一閃亮晶晶晶晶 我的項鍊到底在哪裡 滿天都是小星星星星 我要瞬間變成大明星!
一閃一閃眨眨眼眼眼 氣球飛來飛去的樂園 比太陽還耀眼眼眼眼 鑽石都讓到一邊!
我就是shining shining 大小姐 快大聲喊一遍! 我就是shining shining 大小姐 加滿元氣衝上天!
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Teddoman » 08 Jun 2012, 10:20

Sigh.

Writing is clearly a lost art. Anybody know any English teachers? :raspberry:
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Fortigurn » 08 Jun 2012, 11:05

Teddoman wrote:Sigh.

Writing is clearly a lost art. Anybody know any English teachers? :raspberry:


It wasn't a very complicated joke. I thought it was too obvious, if anything. As for this:

Teddoman wrote:I think what you wrote before was just written unclearly. Could you rewrite? I just don't understand how the last sentence connects to the first sentence in the top paragraph above.


You seem to have read 'social benefits' as 'stronger social cohesion within the group. The 'social benefits' to which I was referring were those I had referred to previously and cited in the footnotes, such as: 'greater self-esteem, better adaptation to bereavement, a lower incidence of depression and anxiety, a lower likelihood of alcohol and drug abuse, and greater life satisfaction and happiness in general'; 'people tend to be healthier, live longer, and have higher levels of subjective well-being'.
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一閃一閃亮晶晶晶晶 我的項鍊到底在哪裡 滿天都是小星星星星 我要瞬間變成大明星!
一閃一閃眨眨眼眼眼 氣球飛來飛去的樂園 比太陽還耀眼眼眼眼 鑽石都讓到一邊!
我就是shining shining 大小姐 快大聲喊一遍! 我就是shining shining 大小姐 加滿元氣衝上天!
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Teddoman » 08 Jun 2012, 12:07

I am not conflating social outcomes with strong social cohesion. You are making a point that the better social outcomes of religious groups are explained by risk minimization behaviors. I am trying to understand how risk minimization behaviors like not smoking, or abstinence, would result is uniquely better social outcomes for religious groups that could not be obtained by a secular community group that promotes the same risk minimization behaviors without the religious component.
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Fortigurn » 08 Jun 2012, 13:11

Teddoman wrote:I am not conflating social outcomes with strong social cohesion. You are making a point that the better social outcomes of religious groups are explained by risk minimization behaviors.


No. On the contrary, I have said that 'The reasons for this are manifold, and the literature on the subject is vast'; 'manifold' means 'very many kinds', and 'vast' means 'very extensive'. So I am not saying that the better social outcomes of religious groups are explained by risk minimization behaviours. In fact I said 'A few key points commonly agreed on, such as that religious groups typically promote risk minimization behaviours to an extent secular counterparts do not'.

I am trying to understand how risk minimization behaviors like not smoking, or abstinence, would result is uniquely better social outcomes for religious groups that could not be obtained by a secular community group that promotes the same risk minimization behaviors without the religious component.


I wouldn't bother trying to understand it unless someone is actually seriously suggesting it. Do you know anyone who has made such a claim?
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一閃一閃亮晶晶晶晶 我的項鍊到底在哪裡 滿天都是小星星星星 我要瞬間變成大明星!
一閃一閃眨眨眼眼眼 氣球飛來飛去的樂園 比太陽還耀眼眼眼眼 鑽石都讓到一邊!
我就是shining shining 大小姐 快大聲喊一遍! 我就是shining shining 大小姐 加滿元氣衝上天!
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Re: The 'Benefits of Religion' Thread

Postby Teddoman » 08 Jun 2012, 22:42

Fortigurn wrote: In fact I said 'A few key points commonly agreed on, such as that religious groups typically promote risk minimization behaviours to an extent secular counterparts do not'.

This is really getting more complicated than it needs to be. I'm not even disagreeing with you! I just think rewriting the above sentence would make your point comprehensible to the masses. It is, after all, not a proper sentence. Add to that the fact that I haven't read any of these studies and haven't read any of your other religion threads. So what seems obvious to you does not seem obvious to me.

[edit]So just to clarify once and for all, I have no idea what you meant in that paragraph. No idea. For the above reasons. I was guessing, trying to lead you clarify, but you didn't really. I don't understand your point about risk minization behaviors and what that has to do with anything we're talking about. It's a little premature to lawyer up, I'm not trying to poke holes in what you're saying. I just have no idea what you even said. Feel free to just rewrite your paragraph. Problem solved rather quickly that way.
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