I have never read the good book so.....

Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Tempo Gain » 08 Sep 2010, 01:30

BlackAdder wrote:
You say you follow the same basic path that Christians do. Unless that is the path to salvation (?) I’d suggest you have instead taken on a path that more closely resembles all the best tenants of all our worldly religions.


Why do i keep getting !#^%! evicted then.
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Gao Bohan » 08 Sep 2010, 02:24

Funk500 wrote:Now what got me thinking is.. I'd say my value system is pretty similar to that of Christianity.. but is that due to Christianity having such a huge influence on our society that it shaped our thinking beyond religion to such an extent that a person can follow the basic tenets and not be a Christian/Muslim or whatever?


One of the phrases used in a lot of social science literature these days is "post-Christian world." It's basically meant to describe a society where Christianity no longer plays a major role in the day to day lives of its people, and yet the culture is still strongly influenced by Christian morals and mores.

When all of Europe was Catholic, everyone was required to observe religious holy days, be it a feast or fast, celebration or period of mourning and reflection. That is no longer true, and yet secular nation-states and corporations still give time off for holy days (from where the word "holiday" comes from) like Easter and Christmas. Calvinists no longer rule over Protestant territories with armed militias, but some countries and regions don't sell liquor on Sundays. Our Christian roots are deep and not easily disturbed.

I was raised Methodist. My mother read the Bible to my sister and me, even after we were old enough to read it ourselves (though we did that too). Methodists don't take all parts of the Bible literally, and considerably more emphasis was placed on the New Testament than the Old. The Bible, and more generally the Christian religion, is not all about God slaying sinners and stoning adulterers.

I've lost the faith, but I do think I learned good moral values in church. And it wasn't just about sitting in a pew and listening to the preacher. Like many churches, we participated in Habitat for Humanity, a Christian organization that builds houses for the poor, at no profit, all over the world. I grumbled like the other kids, but I can remember the feeling of satisfaction as the house we built slowly started to take shape. Meeting the family at the end was a deeply emotional experience.

Being a Christian is really about putting the teachings of Jesus into practice. Jesus told us to feed, clothe, and house the poor. He told us to show kindness to strangers, to forgive and love our enemies, to visit those in prison, to love and pray to God, to share our experiences with others and spread his teachings. Jesus asked us to do a great deal more than "common sense" tells us we should do.
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Mother Theresa » 08 Sep 2010, 05:44

Funk500 wrote:This is an interesting discussion, but I wanna say my point wasn't to decry my good friend bismarck, his faith or anything. It was more to ask how it can be that I'm not a believer yet I follow the same basic path that Christians do.


Because presumably you're just talking about decent, civilized, human conduct that is respectful and courteous to others, such as not killing people or committing violence, not stealing things that belong to others and otherwise respecting the basic rights of others, not harming others by lying or deceit, going a step further and trying to understand others, empathize with them and help those in need. And because Christians have tried to usurp those character traits and claim those are signs one is a "good christian" when, in fact, they're not particular to that faith at all but are just sensible ways for people to behave when striving for a peaceful, happy, harmonious society. Contrary to what THEY will tell you, one needn't read the Bible to be a good person. Those aren't "Christian traits" at all and it's arrogant, naive and presumptuous for them to assert that. They're just how a decent person behaves.
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Namahottie » 08 Sep 2010, 06:06

sandman wrote:I never read the bible either. Wasn't ever a part of my upbringing. Therefore I have a bit of a problem with Namahottie's reference of christ the saviour. What exactly would he be saving me from? I really cannot think of anything.
I know a lot of you guys are into this, though, so, what are you being saved from? I'm interested to know.



From eternal damnation and sin. He died on the cross so that you may be from sin and be able to enter the Kingdom of God. I consider myself a strong Christian, however I fail to evangelize to others about Christ. My attitude is if someone wants to know more about it or discuss it to see if it's something they want to try, I'm all for doing that with them, but otherwise, I'm minding my relationship with Jesus and you mind yours with whomever (Book of Nama 1:1).
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Namahottie » 08 Sep 2010, 06:10

Mother Theresa wrote:
Funk500 wrote:This is an interesting discussion, but I wanna say my point wasn't to decry my good friend bismarck, his faith or anything. It was more to ask how it can be that I'm not a believer yet I follow the same basic path that Christians do.


Because presumably you're just talking about decent, civilized, human conduct that is respectful and courteous to others, such as not killing people or committing violence, not stealing things that belong to others and otherwise respecting the basic rights of others, not harming others by lying or deceit, going a step further and trying to understand others, empathize with them and help those in need. .


You could be talking about Buddhism here.
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Mother Theresa » 08 Sep 2010, 06:32

Namahottie wrote:
Mother Theresa wrote:
Funk500 wrote:This is an interesting discussion, but I wanna say my point wasn't to decry my good friend bismarck, his faith or anything. It was more to ask how it can be that I'm not a believer yet I follow the same basic path that Christians do.


Because presumably you're just talking about decent, civilized, human conduct that is respectful and courteous to others, such as not killing people or committing violence, not stealing things that belong to others and otherwise respecting the basic rights of others, not harming others by lying or deceit, going a step further and trying to understand others, empathize with them and help those in need. .


You could be talking about Buddhism here.


Exactly. And presumably good jews feel the same way. And good hindus. And baptists, methodists, presbytarians, episcopalians, or whatever. And good atheists and agnostics. And even good muslims. Good people should, and do, treat others decently regardless of their beliefs or disbelief in the existence of god. Despite what many of them claim, Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on good conduct.
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Namahottie » 08 Sep 2010, 07:15

Mother Theresa wrote:, Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on good conduct.


Yes we do. You're only going to heaven if you follow the one true Savior, Jesus Christ our Lord. :lol:
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby TwoTongues » 08 Sep 2010, 07:48

Namahottie wrote:
Mother Theresa wrote:, Christianity doesn't hold a monopoly on good conduct.


Yes we do. You're only going to heaven if you follow the one true Savior, Jesus Christ our Lord. :lol:

People talk about Christianity being about love and goodness, but whoever accepts the rule that you must believe that Jesus is the son of god or else you will suffer eternally (whether it be a physical hell or mental hell or spiritual hell, doesn't matter), is preaching fear and ignorance. The only hell that gets created by not being nice (or not providing your partner nookie and not killing other people unless they pray to a different invivisible avenger, as Carlin famously said the 10 commandments boil down to) is a living figurative hell on earth, but to tell people "Jesus is wonderful..." and then say "...and by the way if you don't believe in him you're going to suffer FOREVER" is just plain evil. It's the same fear tactics W et al use to start wars out of BS.

On the other hand, those who take just take the "good stuff" from Christianity (or Judaism or Islam or Buddhism) and acknowledge the other stuff as outdated, wrong, bad, or just plain silly, well, that isn't really faith so much as cherry picking, and as MT says, it works with most religions with "help others" tenets, so it's hardly exclusive to Christianity. It's not really religion being practiced, but being a humanist, really.
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Dragonbones » 08 Sep 2010, 08:44

Funk500 wrote:This is an interesting discussion, but I wanna say my point wasn't to decry my good friend bismarck, his faith or anything. It was more to ask how it can be that I'm not a believer yet I follow the same basic path that Christians do.

Just clarifying if anyone thinks otherwise.

Anyways, carry on :cool:


Don't worry, your point was very clear.

Gao Bohan wrote:One of the phrases used in a lot of social science literature these days is "post-Christian world." It's basically meant to describe a society where Christianity no longer plays a major role in the day to day lives of its people, and yet the culture is still strongly influenced by Christian morals and mores.


If most politicians in the U.S. would be committing political suicide by stating that they're atheists, and generally only Judeo-Christians can get elected, and in Florence, Kentucky liquor stores are closed on Sundays, and many Christians are pushing to get prayer into public schools, I don't think we can say we've achieved "post-Christian" status yet, at least not in the U.S. of Jesusland.
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Re: I have never read the good book so.....

Postby Namahottie » 08 Sep 2010, 09:11

Dragonbones wrote:If most politicians in the U.S. would be committing political suicide by stating that they're atheists, and generally only Judeo-Christians can get elected, and in Florence, Kentucky liquor stores are closed on Sundays, and many Christians are pushing to get prayer into public schools, I don't think we can say we've achieved "post-Christian" status yet, at least not in the U.S. of Jesusland.


You're pointing out two factors as reason to say that America isn't post-Christian? I expect better of you, young man. :no-no: :lol: Compare today's America to let's say the 60s -- marriage, abortion, strict observation of the Sabbath, mainstream celebration of Christian holidays--were all influenced by Christian tenets, I'd say we are very much "post-Christian". Ask any older Jewish person about America culture recognizing Jewish holidays, and they'll tell you that America has come a loooong way baby.
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