Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby bob » 13 Dec 2010, 17:02

Dragonbones wrote:
bob thinks that religion itself is a threat... Do you think that Sarah Palin and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad were somehow created by their religions?


Religion per se is not necessarily a threat, but certain forms of religion, and the twisting of some forms of religion by some, those which encourage simple-mindedness, closed minds, ignorance, anti-empiricism, intolerance, hatred and violence, are most certainly a threat. The people raised in those religions, just as they are influenced by other aspects of their environment, are often in part created by those forms of religion (not by religion per se). Yes, there are those who use religion to justify their misdeed, but that does not mean that there are not some forms of religion which are more conducive to such misguided thought and behavior. You compare specific religiosity to falafels, but when certain specific religiosities out there are preaching against empirical fact like evolution or are preaching close-mindedness, bigotry, hatred and violence, the comparison clearly fails. You say bad dudes are going to be bad dudes, but how many bad Quakers or bad Christadelphians have you ever met or even heard of? When certain forms of religion guide people toward open-mindedness, toward egalitarianism, toward love for all humanity, and away from hatred and violence, are they not helping create good, positive human beings? Peope ARE in part a product of the environment they are raised in, and that includes the religious part, even though we are of course capable of rejecting or moving beyond either the good parts or the bad parts.

Fundamentalist Christianity in the U.S. isn't just being hijacked to shore up anti-empiricism, it IS anti-empiricism. Just because there are those hijacking religion doesn't mean there aren't also religions leading people astray. And none of this is meant to "ignore the billions of people around the globe whose religious beliefs provide a sense of community and purpose in an increasingly uncertain world, as well as the hundreds of thousands of spiritually dedicated religious leaders who tend for their people and very often help them to live better, safer, happier lives." Just because there is good in (some) religion does not mean there isn't also bad in some.


I don't particularly like Hitchens? (Kitchens, oh whatever...) tone. He describes too many people as being "idiotic" or "stupid" but his book "God Is Not Great," if you haven't read it already, will help to dispell any ideas anybody might have about religion itself being somehow neutral. There are good, bad, different, indifferent people of faith certainly, but if they are sane at all they are that way "despite" religion.

Religion, and I am not sure I have heard anybody put it this way, is the "the opposite of democracy." I think that is probably the most meaningful, concise, relevant thing you can say about it at this point in history.

(Obviously I am not on the board much these days but I'll stick my nose in here occassionaly.)
bob
Golden Lotus (huángjīn liánhuā)
Golden Lotus (huángjīn liánhuā)
 
Posts: 8624
Joined: 14 May 2004, 14:11
Location: sunk
21 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 13 Dec 2010, 19:44

I have no problem at all with referring to people who believe that a guy actually rounded up two of every animal (including animals on other continents) and put them all in a big boat as idiotic. That's what they are. Fuck 'em if they don't like it. Why do we even humour such people? It would be one thing if they were kids, but they're adults. If they just stopped and thought about the logistical issues of half of what they believed in for a second, they'd realise it's impossible.
And you coming in to scold us all like some kind of sour-puss kindie assistant who favors olive cardigans and lemon drinks without sugar. -- Muzha Man

One sometimes gets the impression that the mere words "Socialism" and "Communism" draw towards them with magnetic force every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, "Nature Cure" quack, pacifist, and feminist in England. -- George Orwell
GuyInTaiwan
Entering Second Childhood (èrdù tóngnián qī)
Entering Second Childhood (èrdù tóngnián qī)
 
Posts: 7231
Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 23:01
341 Recommends(s)
273 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby Big Fluffy Matthew » 13 Dec 2010, 21:20

"A Flintstones Christmas" predates Christianity by tens of thousands of years.
Er.... thingy.
Forumosan avatar
Big Fluffy Matthew
Bodhisattva (pútísàduǒ)
Bodhisattva (pútísàduǒ)
 
Posts: 9618
Joined: 26 Jun 2002, 16:01
Location: Testing spoons
2 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby suiyuan31 » 20 Dec 2010, 16:23

Hey, I never got my cookie...I have have given the pagan roots speech at least 5 times since this post began! (not really, cuz I don't care...but I still want a cookie :neutral: )
I'm an acquired taste. If you don't like me, acquire some taste.
Forumosan avatar
suiyuan31
Night Market Cop (yè shì tiáo zi)
Night Market Cop (yè shì tiáo zi)
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 18 Nov 2006, 09:23
4 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby Dr. McCoy » 25 Dec 2010, 17:43

We're having pizza!
Forumosan avatar
Dr. McCoy
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 10298
Joined: 11 Oct 2007, 12:41
Location: New Taipei City, Yonghe District
146 Recommends(s)
95 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby Tempo Gain » 25 Dec 2010, 17:55

no shit? goulash here.
Image
Forumosan avatar
Tempo Gain
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11373
Joined: 16 Jul 2004, 22:41
Location: Taipei
320 Recommends(s)
313 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby sandman » 25 Dec 2010, 18:58

We had actual carol singers round our street last night with candles and Santa hats and all. First I've seen in Taiwan, I think. Quite festive it was.
sandman
Manjusri (Wénshū)
 
Posts: 30176
Joined: 04 Jun 2001, 16:01
28 Recommends(s)
199 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby Tempo Gain » 25 Dec 2010, 19:36

near shipai station last night too. anyway the next alley has a church, they do this "christmas lane" thing every year with lights all over and a block party. about the most christmasy place around i figure :)
Image
Forumosan avatar
Tempo Gain
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11373
Joined: 16 Jul 2004, 22:41
Location: Taipei
320 Recommends(s)
313 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby suiyuan31 » 26 Dec 2010, 09:24

I was attacked by carolers at the MRT station on Christmas Eve. The adults were singing and the kids, wearing santa hats, were aggressively running up to people with "gifts" (little packages of stickers and such).
I called them pagans and ran away....And STILL no cookie.
I'm an acquired taste. If you don't like me, acquire some taste.
Forumosan avatar
suiyuan31
Night Market Cop (yè shì tiáo zi)
Night Market Cop (yè shì tiáo zi)
 
Posts: 859
Joined: 18 Nov 2006, 09:23
4 Recognized(s)



Re: Yes, Christmas Has Pagan Roots. Do You Want a Cookie?

Postby Tempo Gain » 26 Dec 2010, 19:30

how do you say "pagan" in Chinese?
Image
Forumosan avatar
Tempo Gain
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11373
Joined: 16 Jul 2004, 22:41
Location: Taipei
320 Recommends(s)
313 Recognized(s)



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Proceed to Religion & Spirituality



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 1 visitor

The number of megapixels does not determine a camera's picture quality; that's a marketing myth. The sensor size is far more important. (Use Google to find it. For example, search for "sensor size Nikon D90.")
More tips from David Pogue