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Impact of religion on society

Impact of religion on society

Postby wollemi » 04 Mar 2011, 13:03

dashgalaxy86 wrote:
tommy525 wrote:It only does when your wishes are in alignment with that of the good Lord. And most of the time it aint.

So when I was ten and I prayed to God that my grandpa and grandma wouldn't die until they had great grandkids, and the next day my grandpa was diagnosed with lung cancer, I guess God had some seriously different wishes that I simply could not align with.
For a long time I hated God for that. It felt like a serious "Fuck you". After that, I pretty much loathed anyone who said "The Lord works in mysterious ways", including the Blues Brothers, and I equally hated those who tried to say anything about God's plan. The one time I got in trouble at school my whole life, I told my Religion teacher in 6th grade (when I was 12) that she had "no idea what the hell" she was talking about when she discussed God's plan with the class.
I've become an atheist since then, and I've found happiness and contentment.

But even today, I am a little offended by tommy's statement.


So as an atheist you must understand that you now believe you were wrong to ask for a God to keep your grandpa alive and that cancer is just a natural part of life and death. Why not ignore Tommys statement rather than get offended by something you believe to now be nonsense? An atheist believes life is all you get. Why waste it being offended by people who believe differently to you? Since you are going to be nothing but scattered particles after you die why bother with religious types at all now? No point telling them anything because there is nothing to say. Dawkins should learn to can his yap too and just get on with enjoying life rather than trying to convert religious people to his way of thinking. He is essentially preaching his own religion. For an atheist life is fleeting and final. It is even more precious to the atheist as there is nothing before or after it. Ignore everyone else and have the best life you can have and get on with the business of loving your family rather than letting others offend you with their belief structures. Have a look into Dao. It might be a good fit for you and you are in the right place to learn about it.
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Re: Does Prayer Work?

Postby dashgalaxy86 » 04 Mar 2011, 13:11

wollemi wrote:
dashgalaxy86 wrote:
tommy525 wrote:It only does when your wishes are in alignment with that of the good Lord. And most of the time it aint.

So when I was ten and I prayed to God that my grandpa and grandma wouldn't die until they had great grandkids, and the next day my grandpa was diagnosed with lung cancer, I guess God had some seriously different wishes that I simply could not align with.
For a long time I hated God for that. It felt like a serious "Fuck you". After that, I pretty much loathed anyone who said "The Lord works in mysterious ways", including the Blues Brothers, and I equally hated those who tried to say anything about God's plan. The one time I got in trouble at school my whole life, I told my Religion teacher in 6th grade (when I was 12) that she had "no idea what the hell" she was talking about when she discussed God's plan with the class.
I've become an atheist since then, and I've found happiness and contentment.

But even today, I am a little offended by tommy's statement.


So as an atheist you must understand that you now believe you were wrong to ask for a God to keep your grandpa alive and that cancer is just a natural part of life and death. Why not ignore Tommys statement rather than get offended by something you believe to now be nonsense? An atheist believes life is all you get. Why waste it being offended by people who believe differently to you? Since you are going to be nothing but scattered particles after you die why bother with religious types at all now? No point telling them anything because there is nothing to say. Dawkins should learn to can his yap too and just get on with enjoying life rather than trying to convert religious people to his way of thinking. He is essentially preaching his own religion. For an atheist life is fleeting and final. It is even more precious to the atheist as there is nothing before or after it. Ignore everyone else and have the best life you can have and get on with the business of loving your family rather than letting others offend you with their belief structures. Have a look into Dao. It might be a good fit for you and you are in the right place to learn about it.


For atheists who wish to live secluded, anonymous lives and are content to see the fall of civilization unfold in front of them, your logic is sound. I'm offended because the ignorance speaks to other similar ignorances that, I believe, are holding humanity back. Stem cell research, allowing women to abort children they're unable to care for, etc. There is also the question of how religion has negatively shaped civilization and law over the centuries.
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Split from 'Does Prayer Work?'

Postby Chris » 04 Mar 2011, 13:46

wollemi wrote:Since you are going to be nothing but scattered particles after you die why bother with religious types at all now?

Others go on living after we die. Religion, though it can do good in people's lives, can also cause great harm. If religious people of a certain stripe gain political power, they can curtail scientific research they deem contrary to their religious sensibilities. Hence they can stop stem cell research, halt research into the origins of the universe, and ban evolution from being taught in schools. They would also propagate falsehoods and curtail rational thought in favor of magical thinking. All of this holds back human progress.

We'd be colonizing the stars now if it were not for the Dark Ages.
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Re: Does Prayer Work?

Postby Got To Be Kidding » 04 Mar 2011, 13:49

Tempo Gain wrote:There's a middle ground there where there can be an open exchange of ideas.


I think that any healthy society should value an open and vigorous exchange of ideas. It's when people want to shut down that exchange of ideas... well, I start to cringe.

Religion has no impact whatsoever on the health of a country. The damage comes from idiots who use religion (or lack thereof) to justify themselves.
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Re: Does Prayer Work?

Postby Got To Be Kidding » 04 Mar 2011, 13:58

Chris wrote:We'd be colonizing the stars now if it were not for the Dark Ages.


Whoa, it wasn't RELIGION that caused that. The socio-political and economic dynamics of the society had nothing to do with religion. Religion was just a tool in the hands of people of uncertain parentage.
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Re: Does Prayer Work?

Postby Fortigurn » 04 Mar 2011, 14:02

Chris wrote:Others go on living after we die. Religion, though it can do good in people's lives, can also cause great harm. If religious people of a certain stripe gain political power, they can curtail scientific research they deem contrary to their religious sensibilities. Hence they can stop stem cell research, halt research into the origins of the universe, and ban evolution from being taught in schools. They would also propagate falsehoods and curtail rational thought in favor of magical thinking. All of this holds back human progress.


True. So don't give them the vote.

We'd be colonizing the stars now if it were not for the Dark Ages.


No we wouldn't. Firstly there were no 'Dark Ages' such as you imply. Secondly we could never have even reached the moon until Western science had been freed from Aristotle's hopelessly mythological and wildly inaccurate cosmology. Greek science had stagnated by the 1st century AD, and never recovered. The entire Western scientific continuum ground to a halt as a result (Romans; great engineers, hopeless at science). It took Christianity to break that deadlock.

GTBK, you're right. I'll do a threadsplit.
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Re: Impact of religion on society

Postby dashgalaxy86 » 04 Mar 2011, 23:05

What did Galileo get executed for believing, again?
The point is religion has held back science, but actually it's not just religion but stubborn conservativism.
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Re: Impact of religion on society

Postby Got To Be Kidding » 04 Mar 2011, 23:31

dashgalaxy86 wrote:What did Galileo get executed for believing, again?
The point is religion has held back science, but actually it's not just religion but stubborn conservativism.


And, the athiestic paradigms that informed the founders of the Soviet Union and the PRC... That's done... what? Except generate subpar science and millions of dead people.

Pointing the finger at religion is like blaming water for causing people to drown.
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Re: Impact of religion on society

Postby dashgalaxy86 » 05 Mar 2011, 00:04

Got To Be Kidding wrote:
dashgalaxy86 wrote:What did Galileo get executed for believing, again?
The point is religion has held back science, but actually it's not just religion but stubborn conservativism.


And, the athiestic paradigms that informed the founders of the Soviet Union and the PRC... That's done... what? Except generate subpar science and millions of dead people.

Pointing the finger at religion is like blaming water for causing people to drown.

There's a difference; those atrocities weren't committed in the name of atheism. The inquisition, the Holy Wars of the world, Jihad, 9/11, many genocides, manifest destiny, etc... these occurred because of religion and in God's name.
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Re: Impact of religion on society

Postby Fortigurn » 05 Mar 2011, 00:17

dashgalaxy86 wrote:What did Galileo get executed for believing, again?


I hate to break it to you, but Galileo was not executed. He wasn't even tortured.

The point is religion has held back science, but actually it's not just religion but stubborn conservativism.


The second part of this sentence is closer to the truth.

dashgalaxy86 wrote:There's a difference; those atrocities weren't committed in the name of atheism.


Acts by atheists such as killing religious people and destroying religious cultural artifacts and literature were in fact committed in the name of atheism. Shall we start on the atrocities which have been committed explicitly in the name of science, and still are?
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