Open Theists?

Re: Open Theists?

Postby Stripe » 07 Jun 2011, 15:44

Tempo Gain wrote:I wouldn't call that "what God predicted did not come to pass," but "God changed his mind."
I can live with that. :D

It seems like a fairly pedantic distinction, however. The message preached was certain destruction in 40 days:
Jonah 3:4b - Then he cried out and said, “Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown!”

So whatever term you want to use, prediction or prophecy or otherwise, God unreservedly said it would happen .. yet it did not.
"You who are without mercy now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff."
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Fortigurn » 07 Jun 2011, 15:56

Stripe wrote:So whatever term you want to use, prediction or prophecy or otherwise, God unreservedly said it would happen .. yet it did not.


Well no, not quite.

Jonah 1:
1 The LORD said to Jonah son of Amittai,
2 “Go immediately to Nineveh, that large capital city, and announce judgment against its people because their wickedness has come to my attention.”

Jonah 2:
10 When God saw their actions - they turned from their evil way of living! - God relented concerning the judgment he had threatened them with and he did not destroy them.
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Tempo Gain » 07 Jun 2011, 16:08

Stripe wrote:

It seems like a fairly pedantic distinction, however.


Not to me. To me, your example doesn't say anything about God's foreknowledge or lack of foreknowledge. God merely made a decision to perform an act in 40 days time, and then relented on that decision.
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Fortigurn » 07 Jun 2011, 16:20

Tempo Gain wrote:Not to me. To me, your example doesn't say anything about God's foreknowledge or lack of foreknowledge. God merely made a decision to perform an act in 40 days time, and then relented on that decision.


Welcome to open theism.
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一閃一閃亮晶晶晶晶 我的項鍊到底在哪裡 滿天都是小星星星星 我要瞬間變成大明星!
一閃一閃眨眨眼眼眼 氣球飛來飛去的樂園 比太陽還耀眼眼眼眼 鑽石都讓到一邊!
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby sandman » 07 Jun 2011, 16:33

Ahhh! Good old Fortigurn. Using a jackhammer and cold chisel to carve this poor schmuck a new arsehole, when an old bent teaspoon dug out of the garden would have been ample. Surely you should temper yourself by using a weapon of no more than equal strength to that of your opponent? Give the fellow a CHANCE, for heaven's sake! TALK about taking a gun to a knife fight! Still, its entertaining to see someone being so COMPLETELY owned!
That he appears so completely and blissfully unaware of how far out of his depth he is might be construed as some as somewhat embarrassing, but, still... makes for amusing reading. :lol:
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Stripe » 07 Jun 2011, 16:46

Tempo Gain wrote:Not to me. To me, your example doesn't say anything about God's foreknowledge or lack of foreknowledge. God merely made a decision to perform an act in 40 days time, and then relented on that decision.

Without knowing what He would do? :ohreally:
"You who are without mercy now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff."
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Tempo Gain » 08 Jun 2011, 00:07

Stripe wrote:
Tempo Gain wrote:Not to me. To me, your example doesn't say anything about God's foreknowledge or lack of foreknowledge. God merely made a decision to perform an act in 40 days time, and then relented on that decision.

Without knowing what He would do? :ohreally:


Yeah, but he's gotta say something for the punters.
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Stripe » 08 Jun 2011, 00:24

Tempo Gain wrote:Yeah, but he's gotta say something for the punters.
Hmmm .. well I don't quite understand what you're distinction is or how it undermines what I've said. Let's try this - what was one of the examples you had of a prophecy that did come to pass?
"You who are without mercy now plead for it? I thought you were made of sterner stuff."
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Tempo Gain » 08 Jun 2011, 00:29

Stripe wrote:
Tempo Gain wrote:Yeah, but he's gotta say something for the punters.
Hmmm .. well I don't quite understand what you're distinction is or how it undermines what I've said.


What I meant was, maybe God knew he wouldn't destroy it after 40 days, but said that so they would possibly (or definitely) change their ways. Or maybe he didn't. I don't think the example makes either possibility clear.

Let's try this - what was one of the examples you had of a prophecy that did come to pass?


With all due respect, I'm the wrong man to ask for biblical examples :) I have to look them up online :)
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Re: Open Theists?

Postby Fortigurn » 08 Jun 2011, 01:05

Stripe wrote:Hmmm .. well I don't quite understand what you're distinction is or how it undermines what I've said.


What he's pointing out is that there's nothing in the text which shows 'God unreservedly said it would happen'. He told Jonah to go and warn the Ninevites of impending judgment. They repented. He didn't destroy them. That's it. There's no unreserved prediction of the future by God here whatsoever. At a stretch you could say Jonah overplayed his hand.
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一閃一閃亮晶晶晶晶 我的項鍊到底在哪裡 滿天都是小星星星星 我要瞬間變成大明星!
一閃一閃眨眨眼眼眼 氣球飛來飛去的樂園 比太陽還耀眼眼眼眼 鑽石都讓到一邊!
我就是shining shining 大小姐 快大聲喊一遍! 我就是shining shining 大小姐 加滿元氣衝上天!
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