Senior Programmer

[ensiferum]

Hi all,

been reading the forum and the Internet for information. My employer and I have plans to have me transferred from Europe to our Taipei office in Taiwan. Before jumping on this opportunity(?) though there are few questions on my mind.

1. Since the employer is providing sponsorship what are the requirements for getting the work permit? Various sources quote that "required documents" must be submitted by the employer, but
I can't find information about what are these documents? I have about 8 years of work experience but I don't hold any kind of college diploma or a degree. Will this be a show stopper?

2. I found information on the forum regarding working conditions and quite frankly they seem appalling. Do people really work from 9-11 and then come in on Saturdays as well? Would you say this is a norm
or just what some people do? Are expats/westerners expected to put in same the same amount of hours? (I have no interest in slaving my life away like that really..)

3. Salaries seem really low. Someone mentioned a going rate for junior engineering (not SW) position at about 50k a month. That seems awfully low.. less than 1300€, which is something in Europe you would probably make in countries like Bulgaria or Romania. How does that compare in Taiwan? And moreover what would be expected salary range for a Senior SW Engineer (with the said 8 years of work experience but no formal qualifications).

Thanks!

[pqkdzrwt]

2. I found information on the forum regarding working conditions and quite frankly they seem appalling. Do people really work from 9-11 and then come in on Saturdays as well? Would you say this is a norm
or just what some people do? Are expats/westerners expected to put in same the same amount of hours? (I have no interest in slaving my life away like that really..)

Depends on who you work for, varies from 9-6, 8-8 and even worse. I hear that western owned companies have more reasonable working hours.

[Tapani]

1. Usually a college degree and two years of experience are required for work permit. I think exceptions can be made if you have long experience within your field (and your employer is foreign). The purpose of the requirements is to prevent anyone to hire people abroad to replace Taiwanes or take opportunities away from the locals.

2. No. I work as a programmer in Taipei area, and the office is empty at 19:00. I've heard the earliest anyeone comes here is 8:30. Of course your employer will have no scruples about encouraging you to work overtime for free... there is no concept of win-win in Taiwan :-)

3. 50k is decent for a junior engineer. I've heard of engineers making 35k. There is a massive education boom here; I've heard that ~90% of the youngsters today get some sort of college diploma, and there is no shortage of some sort of people with some sort of engineering diploma.
The average salary for a senior software engineer is about 1 -- 1.6M NT p.a (according to an online source, which I cannot find now). Salaries are paid for 13-14 months a year (usually).

Also s.w. engineers here can have 20 years of experience (in Europe the older programmers disappear somehow), so 8 years is not an exceptional amount here. I really cannot guess a salary for you, but a wild guess would be between 65-90k a month. Maybe more, if you have a foreign employer.
One thing: do not stare at the salary's worth in some exchange rate. Life here is dirt cheap. My lunch today was 95 NT (~2 EUR), including a latte. A bus trip is 15 NT. Rent is like 10k NT. Tax is like 6% (which is surreal when you come from a high-taxed European country).

[PigBloodCake]

Tax is like 6% (which is surreal when you come from a high-taxed European country).

I don't think you wanna mislead him/her on this since Taiwan income tax is progressive.

Taiwan personal Income Tax

Taiwan personal income tax rates are progressive to 40%.

Income Tax Rate
0-500,000 5%
500,001-1,130,000 12%
1,130,001-2,260,000 20%
2,260,001-4,230,000 30%
4,230,001 and over 40%

Source: http://www.taxrates.cc/html/taiwan-tax-rates.html

And from Epoch Times: http://www.epochtimes.com/b5/8/2/21/n2017824.htm (unfortunately it's written in Chinese but here's the snip for tax rates from the article:)

而在綜合所得稅的部分，現行40%、30%、21%、13%、6%的5級稅率，則分別調降為37.5%、28%、19.5%、12%、5.5%

The article states that, starting from ROC year 99 (2010), the rates will be dropped from 40%、30%、21%、13%、6% to 37.5%、28%、19.5%、12%、5.5% respectively (apology for the cut/paste there).

Not too sure why those 2 don't match but then you can pretty much expect the income brackets to be the same based on the income.

Of course, there are tax deductions but I'm too lazy to go into details on that. Just subtract about 100k NT from your total income based on deductions if you're single (my rule of thumb).

[Petrichor]

Hi all,

been reading the forum and the Internet for information. My employer and I have plans to have me transferred from Europe to our Taipei office in Taiwan. Before jumping on this opportunity(?) though there are few questions on my mind.

1. Since the employer is providing sponsorship what are the requirements for getting the work permit? Various sources quote that "required documents" must be submitted by the employer, but
I can't find information about what are these documents? I have about 8 years of work experience but I don't hold any kind of college diploma or a degree. Will this be a show stopper?

2. I found information on the forum regarding working conditions and quite frankly they seem appalling. Do people really work from 9-11 and then come in on Saturdays as well? Would you say this is a norm
or just what some people do? Are expats/westerners expected to put in same the same amount of hours? (I have no interest in slaving my life away like that really..)

3. Salaries seem really low. Someone mentioned a going rate for junior engineering (not SW) position at about 50k a month. That seems awfully low.. less than 1300€, which is something in Europe you would probably make in countries like Bulgaria or Romania. How does that compare in Taiwan? And moreover what would be expected salary range for a Senior SW Engineer (with the said 8 years of work experience but no formal qualifications).

Thanks!

I'm a little confused by your post. If your employer has plans to transfer you, as a long-standing employee of an international organisation, to their office in Taipei, you would normally be on some kind of expat package. Your employer would deal with your work permit. They would also normally offer you wages at least equal to what you're currently earning, possibly some accommodation expenses and one or more return flights home per year. If I were in your position, this is what I'd be bargaining for and I wouldn't display a huge amount of enthusiasm for moving overseas. A friend of mine is currently living in Hong Kong and her husband's company pays their rent of $8000 a month, their two children's private school fees and three return flights home a year.

My husband worked for Taiwanese company on a contract and when he spent some time working in the local office he did what hours he wanted to. Having said that, his normal working day at home is 10-12 hours so he probably isn't a great example.

[Tapani]

pigbloodcake,
you are right of course. My point was not to be exhaustive with Taiwanese tax laws, but just to show the contrast to European countries where normal effective tax rates can be, and are, over 50%. The average Taiwanese person making the average salary of 48k, would get taxed around 6%. With deductions, it is often lower: a person I know making 75k/month taxed 3.5% last year.

Petrichor makes a valid point, you should of course keep your salary from your home country (+allowance and flights home) -- unless the company is relocating to Taiwan.

[ensiferum]

Hey guys

thanks for your replies.

Yeah the company will organize the work permit.
They've offered me a tad over 2000€ + the company pays for appartment. (they sent me a bunch of prochures for potential appartments ranging from 25k to 70k a month)

I guess I have to try to figure out the effective tax rate. I read somewhere that once you've spent 186(?) days the tax rate changes to that what the locals pay. (Then you're considered a local or something like that).

Getting same salary than what I get here is out of the question I think unfortunately. I got a draft of the contract, it says that working time is 40h/week. (9h day, 1h lunch break), and employer "MAY" ask for UNPAID overtime. Luckily though I think it's possible to get the potential overtime compensated for as either leave or then $. (my boss already agreed to this).

[naijeru]

What is that, about $85k NT? With the apartment that's decent pay, almost as much as a kindy teacher! Your tax rate should be around 13% after 186 days. Also I think all 186 days need to occur within one calendar year in order to get the tax refund.

[PigBloodCake]

Yeah the company will organize the work permit.
They've offered me a tad over 2000€ + the company pays for appartment. (they sent me a bunch of prochures for potential appartments ranging from 25k to 70k a month)

Are Europeans cheap or what? 2000€ ~= $81200NT per month.

Dude, that's low for a transfer...don't sell yourself cheap here. I'd ask for at least $150kNT per month.

Don't ruin the market here by accepting that. You're gonna be a 'transfer', for Christ's sake.

[naijeru]

I forgot about the transfer part. That is a very steep cut for a transfer. But can you get 150k on the Taiwanese market for software development? I got the impression that Taiwan doesn't value software as much as North America or Europe.