Gay Labels

A forum for discussing gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender-related issues, both specific to Taiwan and in general. This forum welcomes people of all sexual orientations to participate and share their opinions and experiences in a mature and safe environment.

Moderator: John

Gay Labels

Postby QuietMountain » 03 Nov 2003, 22:55

I think a lgbt forum would be great. However, I would take issue with calling it "Queer Salon." I know that words like "queer" and "fag" have been embraced by many in the gay community, taking what was once a derogatory remark and making it "our own." However, I'm sure I'm not the only gay man who does not like either term. I'd much prefer to use something more simple (and, yes, boring) as the "LGBT Forum."

Also, I think that, by avoiding terms like "queer" and "fag," we may attract a wider range of people both gay and straight. My thinking behind this harkens back to my own time growing up. When I was a teenager the only gays I knew (of) were those that fit the feminine stereotype of gay men. And though fine for others, that is not how I saw myself or the type of person I wanted to be. So, for the longest time I avoided thinking of myself as gay because I did not want to "associate" myself with those stereotypes.

If there are gay men or lesbians out there who are still struggling with their sexuality -- whether to accept it or not, etc... The use of the terms such as "queer" in the title of the forum may "turn the off." As I mentioned in my previous post, there is such a wide diversity of people that make up the gay community. We should find the best way to reflect that in the title of the forum.
Absence makes the heart grow fonder

*****
If you are a US Citizen, go to http://www.millionformarriage.org to sign a petition in support of same-sex civil marriage.
Forumosan avatar
QuietMountain
High School Triad Member (gāozhōng liúmáng)
High School Triad Member (gāozhōng liúmáng)
 
Posts: 501
ORIGINAL POSTER
Joined: 15 Jan 2002, 17:01
Location: Zhuwei, Taipei

6000

Postby scooter » 03 Nov 2003, 23:27

QuietMountain wrote:If there are gay men or lesbians out there who are still struggling with their sexuality -- whether to accept it or not, etc... The use of the terms such as "queer" in the title of the forum may "turn the off." As I mentioned in my previous post, there is such a wide diversity of people that make up the gay community. We should find the best way to reflect that in the title of the forum.


Metro Salon. Maybe Fred will join us? :lol:
Forumosan avatar
scooter
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 27 Sep 2003, 12:59

6000

Postby Tigerman » 04 Nov 2003, 10:10

QuietMountain wrote:I think a lgbt forum would be great. However, I would take issue with calling it "Queer Salon." I know that words like "queer" and "fag" have been embraced by many in the gay community, taking what was once a derogatory remark and making it "our own...

I agree. I'm uncomfortable with the words "queer" and "fag" and I don't use them to refer to gay people. IMHO, using the word "queer" in these threads is like having a black thread and calling it "n----r news". I would find that very offensive.
Forumosan avatar
Tigerman
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 17257
Joined: 17 Sep 2002, 12:09
221 Recommends(s)
135 Recognized(s)

6000

Postby Alien » 04 Nov 2003, 10:37

Well, it depends on how close you are to 'fags' and 'queers', or if you are one.
And I thought BFM was naive...:roll:
Cut the semantics, Tigerboy, and save your devil's advocacy for your own forum.

Enlighten us about felching, Closet Queen.
Alien
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
 
Posts: 2864
Joined: 16 May 2001, 16:01
Location: New York, NY
1 Recognized(s)

6000

Postby magnolia » 04 Nov 2003, 10:40

Sure, Quiet Mountain, while I think "Queer Salon" is cool and literary, I can see that it could put some people off. Something like "LGBT Salon" might be more apropros, as you suggest.

And just to clarify a point about the whole defining yourself by your gayness debate, and to get away from this
Forumosan avatar
magnolia
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 317
Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 18:19
Location: Xizhi foothills
7 Recommends(s)
2 Recognized(s)

6000

Postby Tigerman » 04 Nov 2003, 10:47

Alien wrote:Well, it depends on how close you are to 'fags' and 'queers', or if you are one. And I thought BFM was naive...:roll:

That's nonsense. I have several close black friends and my oldest and best friend is a Jew. I don't refer to them as "n----rs" and "k---s", and they don't refer to me as "cracker". I have had gay friends and I am fairly well acquainted with two gay fellas here in Taiwan. I don't even jokingly refer to them as "queers" or "fags".

This has nothing to do with how close I am to them or whether I am naive. Its a personal preference for certain terms and a matter, IMO, of respect. I'm not at all saying that people who use those tems are necessarily disrespectful... but we can all show our respect in different ways. Wouldn't you agree?

Alien wrote:Cut the semantics, Tigerboy, and save your devil's advocacy for your own forum.

I think semantics are important, sometimes. And playing the devil's advocate is the way I think, frequently. It can be a very useful method in gaining different perspectives. You should try it sometime.
Forumosan avatar
Tigerman
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 17257
Joined: 17 Sep 2002, 12:09
221 Recommends(s)
135 Recognized(s)

6000

Postby magnolia » 04 Nov 2003, 11:02

Tigerman: I think maybe what Alien means is that these days, most gay people don't consider "queer" to be an insult; obviously a few still do. There's a whole swathe of very boring "queer theory" that even I don't want to go into, but I think many would agree that "fag" is more insulting (certainly to me, as it's a US export!) and queer is kind of OK and maybe even a little ironic in most situations. But everybody will have an opinion. I think that's why QM suggested the forum name should be neutral (ie. dull!)

And anyway, take your catfight to the "Het Salon" if you don't mind! :wink:
Forumosan avatar
magnolia
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 317
Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 18:19
Location: Xizhi foothills
7 Recommends(s)
2 Recognized(s)

6000

Postby Alien » 04 Nov 2003, 11:07

tigerman wrote:That's nonsense. I have several close black friends and my oldest and best friend is a Jew. I don't refer to them as "n----rs" and "k---s", and they don't refer to me as "cracker".


Do you really find the term 'cracker' offensive? I never have. PWT is far more derogatory where I come from. And that, of course, never would apply to me. :wink:

I could go on about what I do find offensive, but since that kind of schlock tends to go on and on here on this website without a blink, waddiyagonnado?

Well, as an exalted "fag hag" since before Little Buddha was born as a biological homosexual, I guess I don't have too much trouble with the term. Nor do the fags I associate with.
Alien
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
Lost Winning Lotto Ticket (zhòngjiǎng cǎiquàn nòngdiū le)
 
Posts: 2864
Joined: 16 May 2001, 16:01
Location: New York, NY
1 Recognized(s)

6000

Postby Tigerman » 04 Nov 2003, 11:48

tigerman wrote:That's nonsense. I have several close black friends and my oldest and best friend is a Jew. I don't refer to them as "n----rs" and "k---s", and they don't refer to me as "cracker".


Alien wrote:Do you really find the term 'cracker' offensive?


Sticks and stones, you know. Its not the words by themselves that I find offensive. Its all the baggage that comes with those words that rub me the wrong way. Are we really trying to arrive at a point in time and space where we can look at each other and simply see each other as fellow human beings that just happen to have different interests and or orientations? Or do we want to continue to define ourselves and others as something different and then erect barriers around and between us? Language can be a very effective bridge... but it can also be a barrier. Certainly all of us living here know that all too well.

I think the problems associated with racism, sexism and orientationism (is that a word?) are some of the most important issues facing us as nation states and as an international community. While I think I can understand why the term "Pride" might have been appropriate in the past, I also think that the gay movement has made advances (as have the majority population as regards its views and perceptions of gays)sufficient to enable us all to start working on getting more integrated.

Words that originally had derogatory conotations, such as "n----r" and "queer" do not, IMO, bring us all together. Rather, they tend to shut some people out. How many black people would accept me into their circle (other than to beat the snot out of me) if I were to use the word "n----r" with them? I understand that many homosexuals may not regard the word "queer" as offensive. But the fact remains, some do. As do some heterosexual people.

Alien wrote:I could go on about what I do find offensive, but since that kind of schlock tends to go on and on here on this website without a blink, waddiyagonnado?


Keep on truckin' on! That is, maintain the dialogue (I sound like a liberal :lol: and erecting barriers too :oops: ) and keep tryin' to make people understand. And keep tryin' to understand things myself. As the Dead used to sing... "I just want to find out, what's right and what's wrong"...

Alien wrote:Well, as an exalted "fag hag" since before Little Buddha was born as a biological homosexual, I guess I don't have too much trouble with the term. Nor do the fags I associate with.


Good. For you. But as was pointed out by someone else here (that means I'm not the only fuddy duddy), there are others who might not feel so at ease and they might be less reluctant to participate as a result... is that what is desired?
Forumosan avatar
Tigerman
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 17257
Joined: 17 Sep 2002, 12:09
221 Recommends(s)
135 Recognized(s)

6000

Postby scooter » 04 Nov 2003, 12:06

It's all in how you say it. Maybe we could put an inverted exclamation mark before it, to let everyone know it should be blurted excitedly when said: !Queer! Salon.

(sorry no inverted exclamation marks on my keyboard).

Seriously though. I never gave a flying F about trailer trash until somebody came up and used it angrily toward me. Its interesting how quickly a word can take on a whole new meaning when it is said in a different way.

Also, I think its up to the community or group itself to decide which words are appropriate and which are not. While I cannot say n----r, it certainly is appropriate for many black people to use it. Same goes with fag and queer. I'd have to agree with Magnolia--fag really raises the hairs on the back of my neck, but not because it's an American export. It reminds me of the taunts from my childhood. NOT PLEASANT. As for queer on the other hand... aside from a couple rounds of "Smear the Queer" in my backyard (long before any of us knew what a queer was) I don't think I've ever heard it used as a slur. In fact, I don't believe I've really ever heard it used when it was not paired with "theory".

But whatever. If it is divisive, then drop it. How about Pink Martini Salon? :lol:
Forumosan avatar
scooter
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 293
Joined: 27 Sep 2003, 12:59

6000

Next




 
 
 x

Return to LGBT Forum



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 1 visitor

Go for it now. The future is promised to no one -- WAYNE DYER