Is "gay" a pejorative?

[Mother Theresa]

Strange. I never heard of that drink.

I'd never heard of the drink or even the term. Very strange.

Not strange at all. It's a very rarely heard expression. I may be mistaken, but I believe it originated in the SE united states as a racist term for negros and is still used today almost exclusively by white folks from the SE united states many of whom might disengenously deny that it's a racist term. I'm honestly not knocking you at all TC, or suggesting you use that term or are racist. That's just my understanding about the origin and use of that expression. I'd be very curious to know if I'm wrong and it's also used in other parts of the country/world, including by reputable sources.

And, back on topic, I'd be curious if anyone disagrees with my thoughts on "ghey" as a term for lame and finds it more acceptable than "gay" for lame.

[fruitloop]

The aforementioned shirt is, a bit camp.

Does the word camp still hold these connotations? Probably, yes. But it is generally accepted language.

OED says...."ostentatious, exaggerated, affected, theatrical; effeminate or homosexual; pertaining to, characteristic of, homosexuals."

[Mother Theresa]

The aforementioned shirt is, a bit camp."

Almas John said that early in this discussion. . .

Oh I say, that shirt is awfully camp!

and I thought that was a great alternative, but I don't know how well it would work for most Americans. Seems like more of a Commonwealth expression, or at least something said by a professor or a film critic or a homosexual, and not by most mainstream heterosexuals. If one said it one might be taunted for sounding gay.

Speaking of which, interesting OpEd piece and discussion in today's NYT.

Early this month, Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover, an 11-year-old boy from Springfield, Mass., hanged himself after months of incessantly being hounded by his classmates for being “gay.” (He was not; but did, apparently, like to do well in school.)

In March, 2007, 17-year-old Eric Mohat shot himself in the head, after a long-term tormentor told him in class, “Why don’t you go home and shoot yourself; no one will miss you.” Eric liked theater, played the piano and wore bright clothing, a lawyer for his family told ABC news, and so had long been subject to taunts of “gay,” “fag,” “queer” and “homo.”

. . . words like “fag” and “gay” are now among the most potent and feared weapons in the school bully’s arsenal.

Being called a “fag,” you see, actually has almost nothing to do with being gay.

It’s really about showing any perceived weakness or femininity – by being emotional, seeming incompetent, caring too much about clothing, liking to dance or even having an interest in literature. It’s similar to what being viewed as a “nerd” is . . .

“To call someone gay or fag is like the lowest thing you can call someone. Because that’s like saying that you’re nothing,” is how one teenage boy put it to C.J. Pascoe, a sociologist . . .

Pascoe spent 18 months embedded in a Northern California working-class high school . . . “These kids experience a loss of masculine privilege on a day-to-day level,” she said. . . . they have the sense that to be a man means something and is incredibly important. These boys don’t know how to be that something. Their pathway to masculinity is unclear. To not be a man is to not be fully human and that’s terrifying.”

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04 ... ng-gay/?em

Oh, and as for TC's "porch monkey". . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6OselVRTsM

[Satellite TV]

I went with Edgar Allen to the Viceroy in HK for a comedy night.

A lot of us were in tears with laughter. Good thing many of the f com posters were not there... was tally politically correct humour

One of the comedians did great comedy on those whome the comedian described as being gay. The Faggot word was bandied about and he did some fantastic singing routines as he was a trained choir singer raised by some very fine fathers of the faith.

[Hobbes]

Was just updating the iPod and noticed that one of the NPR Talk of the Nation podcast segments for June 26 is titled "Why is it OK to Say 'That's So gay'".

I haven't heard the piece yet, but I thought that with a 13 page thread on the subject there might be some here who would be interested in checking it out.

iTunes
NPR Programes: Talk of the Nation
6/26/2009
30 min 31 sec

[Sleepyhead]

Speaking of which, interesting OpEd piece and discussion in today's NYT.

Early this month, Carl Joseph Walker-Hoover, an 11-year-old boy from Springfield, Mass., hanged himself after months of incessantly being hounded by his classmates for being “gay.” (He was not; but did, apparently, like to do well in school.)

In March, 2007, 17-year-old Eric Mohat shot himself in the head, after a long-term tormentor told him in class, “Why don’t you go home and shoot yourself; no one will miss you.” Eric liked theater, played the piano and wore bright clothing, a lawyer for his family told ABC news, and so had long been subject to taunts of “gay,” “fag,” “queer” and “homo.”

. . . words like “fag” and “gay” are now among the most potent and feared weapons in the school bully’s arsenal.

Being called a “fag,” you see, actually has almost nothing to do with being gay.

It’s really about showing any perceived weakness or femininity – by being emotional, seeming incompetent, caring too much about clothing, liking to dance or even having an interest in literature. It’s similar to what being viewed as a “nerd” is . . .

“To call someone gay or fag is like the lowest thing you can call someone. Because that’s like saying that you’re nothing,” is how one teenage boy put it to C.J. Pascoe, a sociologist . . .

Pascoe spent 18 months embedded in a Northern California working-class high school . . . “These kids experience a loss of masculine privilege on a day-to-day level,” she said. . . . they have the sense that to be a man means something and is incredibly important. These boys don’t know how to be that something. Their pathway to masculinity is unclear. To not be a man is to not be fully human and that’s terrifying.”

http://warner.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/04 ... ng-gay/?em

From one of the few rap groups I have ever liked:

"Language Of Violence" by The Disposable Heroes Of Hiphoprisy
(This can only be seen through a site anonymizers, it won't allow direct viewing in Taiwan.)

"Language Of Violence" lyrics

Walking in with his thin skin lowered chin
He knew the names that they would taunt him with
Faggot sissy punk queen queer
Although he'd never had sex in his 15 years
And when they harassed him it was for a reason
And when they provoked him it became open season
for the fox and the hunter, the sparks and the thunder
that pushed the boy under, then pillage and plunder
It kind of makes you wonder
how one can hurt another
But dehumanizing the victim makes things simpler
It's like breathing with a respirator
It eases the conscience of even the most conscious
and calculating violator
Words can reduce a person to an object,
something more easy to hate
An inanimate entity, completely disposable,
no problem to obliterate

[tommy525]

The homosexuals and the lesbians that iv come across in SF have not liked the word "homosexual" or "lesbian" (less so the former then the latter) but are happy to be called "gay"

[Sleepyhead]

It was a perfectly good word until the homos went and ruined it.

Conservative used to be a perfectly good word, too, when it meant "cautious" and "avoiding excess".

[Screaming Jesus]

I seem to recall the inhabitants of Lesbos protesting certain...misuses of their island's name.

[henryhu]

It totally depends on how it is used.

If a straight man gets his chest waxed after getting a manicure, that can be called "gay" with no offense taken, since gay guys, embarrassingly, do that more than straight guys.

If a straight man says he wants the Broncos to win the Super Bowl, and his Patriot's fan buddy calls him gay for his choice in teams, that is very offensive. Using gay in this instance is taking a term that a large chunk of the population define themselves by and using it as an insult. Even if the Patriots fan wasn't consciously putting down butt pokers, that was his result by using gay people's choice in how they refer to themselves in society as an insult. How would Methodists respond if "being Methodist" meant being stupid? How would black people respond if "that is sooooo black" meant the accused were cold-hearted, old fashioned, or had bad taste in shoes? How would straight men respond if "being straight" meant to be kind of unclean, poorly dressed, and out of touch with common social courtesies? Oops. I think that is what "straight" means. Sorry... I guess I am really gay for saying that.