Lone shooter attacks movie goers, 12 dead Colorado

[Omniloquacious]

Of course Americans must keep the right to own and tote guns. Otherwise, they won't be able to protect life by shooting doctors and nurses who perform abortions.

[Omniloquacious]

Chris, the murder rate here is often is excess of the US per capita.

Are you sure about that?

The most reliable figures that I can find for rates of intentional homicide per 100,000 population in 2010 are as follows:
Western and Central Europe 1.2
UK 1.23
Asia 3.1
Taiwan 3.2
North America 4.7
USA 4.8
World 6.9
South America 21
Brazil 26
South Africa 32

If those figures are accurate, they pretty much speak for themselves. It is particularly noteworthy that America's intentional homicide rate is four times as high as Western and Central Europe's. Could gun laws possibly have anything to do with that?

[Mucha Man]

Chris, the murder rate here is often is excess of the US per capita.

Are you sure about that?

The most reliable figures that I can find for rates of intentional homicide per 100,000 population in 2010 are as follows:
Western and Central Europe 1.2
UK 1.23
Asia 3.1
Taiwan 3.2
North America 4.7
USA 4.8
World 6.9
South America 21
Brazil 26
South Africa 32

If those figures are accurate, they pretty much speak for themselves. It is particularly noteworthy that America's intentional homicide rate is four times as high as Western and Central Europe's. Could gun laws possibly have anything to do with that?

I said often, and yes, if you go back to the mid-90s you will see years where it has been higher. All without guns.

I agree America has an appalling murder rate but it has little to do with personal gun ownership and lots to do with drug laws and the abandonment of inner cities. I remember Time ran an article once on all the people who had been murdered that month, or perhaps week. Overwhelmingly the murders were drug related or domestic disputes. That hasn't changed as far as I know.

What I find idiotic from the right is that the don't want to address inequality, poor public education, and drug laws but instead think the answer to failing social policy is not better policy (since government can't solve anything) but to arm everyone.

I believe reasonable gun laws are important and no one should have military style weapons. But I see nothing to suggest that allowing individuals to have handguns or rifles is strongly correlated to the amount of violence in the US.

[Tigerman]

What I find idiotic from the right is that the don't want to address inequality, poor public education, and drug laws but instead think the answer to failing social policy is not better policy (since government can't solve anything) but to arm everyone.

But, of course conservatives want to address inequality and poor public education. That argument has been ongoing for many years. Wanting to try a different approach does not equate to not wanting to address these problems. And the current drug laws are maintained by conservative and liberal pols, alike. There are many conservatives who are in favor of and who advocate legalizing marijuauna and reforming drug legislation.

Conservatives don't think the answer/solution is arming everyone, either. Many believe that arming themselves is simply prudent given the state of American society/culture.

I believe reasonable gun laws are important and no one should have military style weapons.

I agree.

But I see nothing to suggest that allowing individuals to have handguns or rifles is strongly correlated to the amount of violence in the US.

I agree with this, also.

[cfimages]

Then they can't be used in self-defense like this recent example:

And after they starting running away, he continued chasing them and firing more, despite having already scared them off. He belongs in a jail cell next to the robbers. Anyone could have been hit and it's just lucky he was a poor enough shot that nobody died...
If someone had have returned fire, you'd have a lot more than 12 dead.

I've read some sicking stuff from liberals but this takes the cake. My hats off to you, sir. Liberal idiots like to claim conservatives make people like you and these quotes up. Thanks for providing proof positive that we do not.

So an old man that uses a gun to defend people is just as criminal as the robbers. Wow.

Anyone could have been hit by those bullets. He was firing from basically point blank range and missed. He was what, 2m away, and yet the robbers managed to run away. Those bullets could have gone anywhere, into anybody. He wasn't protecting anyone.

Or what if the robbers returned fire? How many deaths would have been justifiable to protect the old guy's precious 2nd amendment bullshit?

[Omniloquacious]

Just kill us all, right? Wanna use the pogroms, the guillotine, or what this time?

Oh no, that won’t be called for at all. The violence belongs with the gun-toters, not with those who would rather live in a gun-free society.

Better just to put the lot of you into a sealed compound with all of your guns and ammunition. Then your trigger-happy fingers will ensure that Darwin’s Law does the needful culling soon enough – especially if your lust for shooting is oiled with an ample provision of booze.

(And just in case the tone of this remark eludes anyone, here's one of those winky things to accentuate it: )

[johnny138]

Anyone could have been hit by those bullets. He was firing from basically point blank range and missed. He was what, 2m away, and yet the robbers managed to run away. Those bullets could have gone anywhere, into anybody. He wasn't protecting anyone.

Or what if the robbers returned fire? How many deaths would have been justifiable to protect the old guy's precious 2nd amendment bullshit?

You're so full of crap you can't get the facts straight:
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-int ... 41656.html

Williams was one of about 30 customers in the Palm Internet Cafe when the two suspects walked in. Because of him, everyone inside was safe. Those armed teens, one with a gun and one with a bat, were chased out the door. Both of them were shot.

"After he started firing, they took off,” sheriff's office spokesman Judge Cochran said. “They fell on top of each other trying to get out of the café."

Davis Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, 19, stopped by the hospital on their way to jail.

Maybe you need to turn off "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" or whatever else you waste your worthless time with and try to actually READ the news you comment on.

He hit what he was aiming for.

And he chased them out because he was using a small caliber weapon and in real life, unlike the moving picture box, people don't always fall down dead just because they've been shot.

But hey, you would have known that had you watched the clip. But you didn't need to do that, did you? No you and your fraking GENIUS buddies in your little liberal circle jerk don't need to actually watch clips or read the links provided. You just read what each other writes and slap yourselves on the back about how smart you are and how the other side is so stupid.

Looks like the other side is the stupid one.

[cfimages]

Anyone could have been hit by those bullets. He was firing from basically point blank range and missed. He was what, 2m away, and yet the robbers managed to run away. Those bullets could have gone anywhere, into anybody. He wasn't protecting anyone.

Or what if the robbers returned fire? How many deaths would have been justifiable to protect the old guy's precious 2nd amendment bullshit?

You're so full of crap you can't get the facts straight:
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/national-int ... 41656.html

Williams was one of about 30 customers in the Palm Internet Cafe when the two suspects walked in. Because of him, everyone inside was safe. Those armed teens, one with a gun and one with a bat, were chased out the door. Both of them were shot.

"After he started firing, they took off,” sheriff's office spokesman Judge Cochran said. “They fell on top of each other trying to get out of the café."

Davis Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, 19, stopped by the hospital on their way to jail.

Maybe you need to turn off "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" or whatever else you waste your worthless time with and try to actually READ the news you comment on.

He hit what he was aiming for.

And he chased them out because he was using a small caliber weapon and in real life, unlike the moving picture box, people don't always fall down dead just because they've been shot.

But hey, you would have known that had you watched the clip. But you didn't need to do that, did you? No you and your fraking GENIUS buddies in your little liberal circle jerk don't need to actually watch clips or read the links provided. You just read what each other writes and slap yourselves on the back about how smart you are and how the other side is so stupid.

Looks like the other side is the stupid one.

The video shows at least 6 shots. Do you really mean to tell me he's such a good shot that he aimed for their arms or some other non-lethal area and hit with all 6 bullets, and still left them in good enough shape to run out the door and to the hospital?

And if you want to debate with somebody, how about doing so with some basic civility and without the need to throw insults and abuse around? If your argument is so weak that you need to get angry and abuse whole groups of people, then you probably don't have a very good argument.

To people who value freedom, who value the freedom to live a life without violence, your arguments just leave us shaking our heads in bewilderment. It's plain as day to most of the world that America has a big problem with violence and instead of trying to solve those problems, you just want to glorify violent actions and worship something that has only one purpose - to kill.

[Bubba 2 Guns]

Well, last weekend my racist-Taiwanese-surfer-gangster neighbors were very set on beating me to death with sticks because another neighbor parked in their driveway. They called the Taiwanese ladies I was with "traitors" and "whores" and started moving towards me with the sticks in their hands. I backed up and picked up a machete. (I was on the roof of my place and they have access to my side and were up on the roof with me) They stopped. I said, "What are you waiting for? I'm here?" One of them was shaking so badly I thought he was going to fall apart.

They backed up and left.

I've had problems with them before. One time I found an aboriginal sword stashed away after having a fight with them a few years back. I called the police. They told me they couldn't do anything. I told my landlord. She said she couldn't do anything. So I armed myself. I wasn't going to move. I lived there first and I put a lot of time and money into the place. And I loathe bullies.

Guess what. I didn't get beaten to death. It wasn't because I confronted them or stood up to them. They stopped because I had a fucking machete in my hand. If I had a rolled up newspaper or an egg beater, they would have beat me like an ugly pinata.

If I had been carrying in that movie theater I would have shot that gun man. I wouldn't have panicked. I would have shot him like I've been trained to do.

If you doubt that- well-I saved a woman and her kid from drowning yesterday at Fulong Beach. I didn't panic. She calmed down because I was calm. She lived.

I also calmly stood down 3 men who wanted to beat me to death with sticks.

I haven't owned a gun in 22 years. I haven't fired one in two years. If I owned and carried one legally I would shoot two or three times a month at the firing range. I would follow the law. Pay my taxes, smile at my neighbors and take care of my lawn.

Wouldn't you want to live next to a guy like me? Wouldn't you like to be sitting next to me in a dark movie theater when a nut job walks in with intent to kill everyone?

The U.S. will never get rid of it's guns. We have a huge uncontrolled border where people and things pass over in both directions very freely. Gun laws are followed by people who follow laws.

Criminals don't buy guns at gun shows and gun stores. They buy them from other criminals who steal them from law abiding people or get them from illegal imports. Most of the time a gun will circulate a neighborhood and people will "rent" a gun for a particular crime. If you don't believe me I'll give you the e-mail address of a friend of mine who was in Pelican Bay for armed robbery for 15 years.

WE don't need guns in Taiwan for the average citizen. They can barely handle automobiles. It would be a mess. I just hope they don't outlaw machetes.

[ChewDawg]

ABC, part of the eastern establishment media, has already tried to connect him to the Tea Party Brian Ross and ABC are sad sacks of shit.

Let's play the same game. The shooter is reportedly a graduate student in medicine, yet the eastern establishment media has not looked into the far-left biases of university campuses, including the ultra-liberal UC system where the shooter was educated.

The shooter displayed his aggression in a violence-soaked Hollywood movie, yet the eastern media has not suggested that what Hollywood liberal elites puts into people's heads was a cause of this horror.

Yet ABC, on the flimsiest of pretexts, wanted to associate this tragedy with the peaceful, law-abiding non-violent Tea party movement.

Assholes.

Now it looks as if this academic-turned-killer was really into the NGO scene by helping out as a camp councillor for a Jewish charity (although he is a gentile), a camp that focuses on mostly low-income and disadvantaged non-Jewish youth. Academic, scholarship recipient, University of California grad, camp councillor for poor kids etc..

It also appears that he did really badly in a test and withdrew from the PHd. program is June. Was this freak so much of an out-of-touch academic that the poor results caused him to lose it?

In an exclusive interview with The Jewish Journal, the staff member, who asked not to be named, confirmed what many friends, colleagues and former neighbors of Holmes have said: He was decent and unremarkable.

“He was a quiet guy,” said the former staffer, who was in close contact with Holmes. “I never would have suspected a thing. He just kept to himself.”

At Camp Max Straus, Holmes was in charge of a group of 10 boys, ages 7 to 10.

“He never got in trouble,” recalled the staffer, who added that there were never any complaints about him from his campers. While Camp Max Straus activities do not include shooting sports, Holmes did engage in archery with his campers.

The former staffer said Holmes did not seem to hang out with other counselors his age, however.

“It’s not that they didn’t like him,” the staffer said. “It’s just that he wasn’t very social.”

Holmes, the staffer said, was not Jewish. During the summer, Camp Max Straus serves a primarily non-Jewish population of low-income and disadvantaged youths through Jewish Big Brothers/Big Sisters.

During the holiday season, the organiztion runs a Chanuka Camp.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/nation/art ... _20120722/

He was known as a very quiet young man, introverted but pleasant. Holmes, 24, had shown scholarly promise in the recent past. He'd earned a merit scholarship out of high school in a sunny San Diego suburb. He had graduated from college with honors. From there, he'd gone to graduate school at the University of Colorado at Denver.

And then something changed. By this spring, Holmes had begun to struggle with poor test scores. He eventually decided to quit school.

http://www.startribune.com/nation/16325 ... ml?refer=y