Not paying off U.S. student loans

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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Confuzius » 04 May 2012, 21:37

flike wrote:Black, white, and shades of grey: I get that. Sure lots of things are grey in life, BUT NOT THIS THING.


its actually kinda clamshell with a mix of burgandy

victimless-not a single person will lose a single cent if you were to calculate the impact the OP's default will have on interest rates...get real

still love starin atyall on them high horses...mighty fine view, too bad your bassackwards
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Teddoman » 04 May 2012, 21:41

GuyInTaiwan I can't argue your case about Hess because you're the only one testifying so of course your case is rock solid, undeniable, impossible to lose. Case closed because there is no testimony from Hess.

Hess is not a high end boutique hotel in Paris; it's a Motel 6 in Newark NJ. They pay the cheapest. That's their positioning in the market. Your comparison to other buxibans and government schools just don't apply because those are the other tiers of the education market. Hess is not that tier. Hess is a one of a kind school because it is basically solely responsible for sourcing most of the foreign teachers that end up in Taiwan. They put in a lot of time and expense recruiting workers from foreign countries, who basically get poached by competitors who have not put in any time or expense to recruit workers from other countries. And Hess makes up for this expense by having teacher pay that is at the bottom rung of the foreign teacher market.

I was at Hess too. I paid the fine when I cancelled. I had a no worry experience coming to Taiwan knowing I had guaranteed income to support myself, and I had known I would have to pay the fine if I moved on to different pastures. I don't feel like I was lied to, nor did any of my co-workers at the time. No one sat there and made repeated guarantees that I would never have to work past 20 minutes of prep. It just sounds to me like you and your co-workers were a lot more aware that the competition was paying for grading etc etc so it burned you to be doing it for free at Hess. Even if you were misled by some Hess person, it doesn't change the fact that Hess incurred recruiting expenses to bring you to Taiwan and now has to replace a teacher mid contract.

Those labor laws you so carefully relied upon were worker protections made to protect people from unfair bargains. My question is, you (and many others) are so happy to rely on labor laws and other laws that protect you in so many facets of your lives. But when it comes to Silmanor's situation, he should have fended for himself? There shouldn't be student laws that protect uneducated students from colleges who just want their money? I just don't get that. He, along with many other kids, get a raw bargain with higher education, because we are all told how important it is, so we take on educational loans willy nilly, but in reality there is no payback for many students who are left saddled with debt for the rest of their lives and no escape even through bankruptcy, which by the way is a regressive anomaly that treats our young people worse than the dodgiest corporation or government. That's like life imprisonment for being found with a large amount of marijuana in your possession, while murderers rapists and child molesters do 5 years.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby bigduke6 » 04 May 2012, 21:46

Confuzius wrote:
flike wrote:Black, white, and shades of grey: I get that. Sure lots of things are grey in life, BUT NOT THIS THING.


its actually kinda clamshell with a mix of burgandy

victimless-not a single person will lose a single cent if you were to calculate the impact the OP's default will have on interest rates...get real

still love starin atyall on them high horses...mighty fine view, too bad your bassackwards


You are missing the point. If enough people say "I am not paying off my loans so I can live in a better house" there will be a knock on effect.

It is simple economics 101. As the loans are seen as becoming riskier, the interest rates will increase to offset the risk. Hence those down the line will get shafted.
This is indisputable.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Confuzius » 04 May 2012, 23:05

bigduke6 wrote:
Confuzius wrote:
flike wrote:Black, white, and shades of grey: I get that. Sure lots of things are grey in life, BUT NOT THIS THING.


its actually kinda clamshell with a mix of burgandy

victimless-not a single person will lose a single cent if you were to calculate the impact the OP's default will have on interest rates...get real

still love starin atyall on them high horses...mighty fine view, too bad your bassackwards


You are missing the point. If enough people say "I am not paying off my loans so I can live in a better house" there will be a knock on effect.

It is simple economics 101. As the loans are seen as becoming riskier, the interest rates will increase to offset the risk. Hence those down the line will get shafted.
This is indisputable.


No, I do understand that. If a million people do etc etc, then its a huge problem.

But those are big numbers and we are not talking about millions of people here-we are talking about ONE person.

You cannot claim if this ONE person (the OP) defaults that it will have the impact of even a single cent on a single person in the entire country's interest rates. (well, you could claim it, but your posts are always intelligent, whether I agree with them or not, so I doubt you would).

I get the notion, I get that "in principle" yadda yadda yadda. But in ACTUALITY...its a victimless crime.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Abacus » 04 May 2012, 23:19

teddoman - Do you work in the buxiban industry? Have you signed a buxiban contract? it's explicitly written in your contract that if you want to break the contract then you have to give advance notice. Uusually one month notice is required and there might be an illegal penalty also. In addition to that the labor board agrees with your ability to break the contract as long as you give notice and don't do a runner (leave the country).

There is pretty much no comparison to skipping the country on what might be 6 figure debt. If they can find you then you will be given a summons to appears in court. And if you fail to appear then you will go to jail. these situations are not related at all.

silmanor has started taking the correct steps. Loan consolidation and reduction are legal ways to resolve this situation but I'm a little turned off by his attitude that he'll be forced to live a life in squalor if he pays it back. I've been living on really tight budget for the last several years because of my decisions and I didn't complain about it. I saved what I could and stayed out of debt. I also lived in a crummy house (3000NT/mo). Life is not easy but my finances are now stable and I'm finally able to afford some things that I've wanted for awhile.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Charlie Jack » 05 May 2012, 11:04

At 9:41 p.m. yesterday, Teddoman wrote:I was at Hess too. I paid the fine when I cancelled.


At 11:19 p.m. yesterday, Abacus wrote:teddoman - . . . . Have you signed a buxiban contract?


It would seem so.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby trubadour » 07 May 2012, 21:14

what the highhorses have in common is that they fail to recognise or even comprehend how the OP could have ethics on his side. they fail to recognise that ethics goes beyond cause and effect, beyond contracts, beyond 'common sense', that it might exist despite the injustices they may have had to suffer or the debts they may have toiled to render unto their debtors. none of them notice how no one is saying it is actually immoral for the Greeks to default. none of them can see beyond Hess.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Impaler » 08 May 2012, 06:06

trubadour wrote:what the highhorses have in common is that they fail to recognise or even comprehend how the OP could have ethics on his side. they fail to recognise that ethics goes beyond cause and effect, beyond contracts, beyond 'common sense', that it might exist despite the injustices they may have had to suffer or the debts they may have toiled to render unto their debtors. none of them notice how no one is saying it is actually immoral for the Greeks to default. none of them can see beyond Hess.

Indeed, by defaulting on his loans, OP is striking a blow for freedom against the corporatist-socialist Wall Street apparatchiks and Jews who run the financial industry. I applaud OP for his courage and compassion in fleeing the country ahead of his creditors, who would undoubtedly otherwise have him whoring out his momentarily virginous, tight young anus to all comers in gay bathhouses. I am sure OP will set an excellent example for the young, impressionable children whom parents in Taiwan entrust to his teachings.
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This post was recommended by 2 Forumosans: GuyInTaiwan (08 May 2012, 08:11), silmanor (08 May 2012, 06:22)
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 08 May 2012, 08:15

The Greeks (and plenty of other Europeans) are immoral though. They, and the French too, are also stupid in electing left wing politicians. That's the last thing they need right now. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? Of course, what they really need to do is twofold: 1) get of their arses and actually do some work, 2) live within their means. However, that's never going to happen in the socialist Disneyland that is much of Europe. We are now seeing the logical conclusion to the European project.

The Germans have got themselves in the shit because whilst the prudent and moral thing would be to withdraw funding for Greece, doing so would probably bring them down too. Maybe they need to just cut their losses and move on. Short term pain, but long term gain in getting rid of these giant albatrosses around their neck. If the Greeks and other Europeans think Europe is a giant clusterfuck now, they ain't seen nothin' yet!
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Zla'od » 08 May 2012, 09:12

"Highhorses." I like that! I am eager to see what nickname the highhorses will come up with for the other side.

Mention of macro-economics brings up the uncomfortable fact that our prosperity is dependent on many factors beyond our control. One need not be a conspiracy theorist to observe that the wealthy and well-connected routinely manipulate the system for their own interests. What ethical duty does a slave owe a master, or a serf his lord?
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