Not paying off U.S. student loans

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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby trubadour » 21 May 2012, 08:41

I'll pretend this is all going quite well and that everything you haven't ignored (c), for which we are all here.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 21 May 2012, 08:59

I have addressed it. You just continue to ignore my responses, and then harp on about me not addressing it. Jesus Christ, man, I and others have addressed these points probably dozens of times in this thread already. Are you trolling?

Here's a summary of responses:

1) If you make a commitment, follow through on it;
2) If someone defaults, someone else picks up the tab;
3) If enough people default, the system itself comes into crisis, which then affects the overall price of obtaining credit.

There are probably others, but I'm not going to find them for you when you could just go back and read the thread yourself.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby redandy » 23 May 2012, 05:33

Late comer to the discussion, so I'm not sure the OP is still here, but the topic is interesting enough that I can't help chiming in:

This idea of going to Taiwan/China and closing the door to the possibility of any long term return to the U.S. seems like a drastic measure to deal with a fairly common problem. At first glance it may seem like the easy cure all measure, but the OP seems to consider this to be a lifelong solution, so you have to really think about long-term issues...here's a few I've thought of.

-Right now, you may be safe from current laws and credit practices, but there's no guarantee it will stay that way. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if at some future date, lenders and credit agencies on either side of the Pacific started looking more at activities in foreign...just something to consider. Also, the IRS is known for chasing U.S. citizens around the world to collect taxes -- who's to say that student loan debt won't eventually follow a similar path?

-Simply being in Asia will not cure all your woes. Unemployment, divorce, disability, credit issues, political instability, war, and a host of other things could happen in your lifetime. If they do, are you sure you're going to be willing and able to stay here?

-On the flip side, suppose the American economy picks up and you find that a college degree, Chinese fluency, and local experience are marketable skills to some U.S. company that will pay more than what you can make in China? Do you want to have to say, sorry, I can't go back?

-What about family? Say your parents get old and need care, or say one day you have kids that want to go to college in the U.S. If and when that happens, are you going to say "sorry I'd like to help, but I can't do business in the U.S?"

I guess my point is that a lot can happen in a lifetime, so you might want to leave some bridges standing.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby bigduke6 » 23 May 2012, 08:31

Good practical advice.

Too many posters here supporting default to screw the "Man", without actually offering any worthwhile input.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Confuzius » 23 May 2012, 16:48

GuyInTaiwan wrote:I have addressed it. You just continue to ignore my responses, and then harp on about me not addressing it. Jesus Christ, man, I and others have addressed these points probably dozens of times in this thread already. Are you trolling?

Here's a summary of responses:

1) If you make a commitment, follow through on it;


Like with Hess....yawn

GuyInTaiwan wrote:2) If someone defaults, someone else picks up the tab;


No one is going to be charged a single cent extra if the OP defaults, so argument is irrelevant.

GuyInTaiwan wrote:3) If enough people default, the system itself comes into crisis, which then affects the overall price of obtaining credit.


OP is not "enough people" so again, irrelevant.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 23 May 2012, 17:08

Confuzius:

1. Precisely. Hess broke the contract, which is why I went to the CLA. Yawn yourself.

2. Of course people will have to pay more. People's actions do not happen in isolation. If enough people default, then people get affected. Do you walk into Wal-mart and steal something because it's inconsequential if only one person does it?

3. See 2.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby trubadour » 23 May 2012, 21:05

GuyInTaiwan wrote:I have addressed it. You just continue to ignore my responses, and then harp on about me not addressing it. Jesus Christ, man, I and others have addressed these points probably dozens of times in this thread already. Are you trolling?

Here's a summary of responses:

1) If you make a commitment, follow through on it;
2) If someone defaults, someone else picks up the tab;
3) If enough people default, the system itself comes into crisis, which then affects the overall price of obtaining credit.

There are probably others, but I'm not going to find them for you when you could just go back and read the thread yourself.


Seems like, on the internet, if you ask someone to provide solid reasoning to support their opinions you get called a troll. Fair enough, maybe that's the standard most people are willing to accept. You have your opinions, I'll have mine and we'll bring them out now and again, have a little something (can't call it a debate) in a forum and we'll get on with what remains of our lives.

I happen to believe rational debate is possible on all levels of ethics and economics; that there is truth and there is falsity and that we (non-specialists) can discover it and satisfactorily demonstrate it here and now. I know it to be possible to debate ethics and economics rationally and so I recognise when it happens that what looks like a debate is really just an exchange of opinions.

But to others, it seems that if they are asked to back up their opinions with facts or rational demonstration, all they can do is point to other opinions or simply re-state their own previously stated opinion! And apparently there need be little or no connection at all between opinions (or apps)! They are simply what we believe, and for the reasons we stated we believe them! Nothing more, nothing less.

To call these opinions superficial is almost inappropriate because I guess the 'reasons' are, superficially, well intentioned: you should be honest because being honest is good. You should pay your debts because maybe other people will have to pay them. You should support the current system because crisis is bad. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. They are statements that speak for themselves. Unless you want to know what is 'good'? Unless you question logical connections, the definions or the implications of, 'good' or 'crisis.' Even then, it seems, one gets answers like, 'crisis is bad because we don't want crisis' or ''good' is doing what you say you will do, no matter what.' I.e. more of the same.

I guess people believe opinions are just something you 'have' or collect or chose from a selection of previously available; perhaps they see it as their responsibility, so far as they can, to pick from the available opinions those that seem to make sense and thereby fashion for themselves a 'personal opinion' like one picks clothes in a store. After all, why bother trying to work it out for yourself or seek the truth when the truth is not really there available for you to chose in this case (like so many). So, one truth is as good as another.

Unless you happen to find another's disagreeable, then, I suppose, it might be worth a dispute, since there is nothing much to be lost.

One of them might even think it their duty to tell their picked opinions to people when they apparently need them, set them straight (some kind of straight anyway), lest another's opinions be somehow more worthless than theirs...
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Enigma » 23 May 2012, 21:44

Teddoman wrote:
GuyInTaiwan wrote:What rot. Of course it's a moral obligation.

When the only justification for an argument is "of course it is", that's when you know there's absolutely no rationale for the argument being made, so the only rationale left is, "of course it is". If there were any better rationale, it would already have been made.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Enigma » 23 May 2012, 21:44

Teddoman wrote:
GuyInTaiwan wrote:What rot. Of course it's a moral obligation.

When the only justification for an argument is "of course it is", that's when you know there's absolutely no rationale for the argument being made, so the only rationale left is, "of course it is". If there were any better rationale, it would already have been made.
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Re: Not paying off U.S. student loans

Postby Enigma » 23 May 2012, 21:48

A moral obligation? perhaps you can be more clear on your morals! What do you owe? Have your ever told a woman that you loved her and defaulted? Maybe just stole some penny candy.
FUCK MORALS. It's an abstract term and you know it.
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