Reverse migration

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Reverse migration

Postby Icon » 18 Apr 2012, 10:46

I had already noticed this with some of my classmates, seems it is not getting bad at all:

Jonathan Assayag, 29, a Brazilian-American born in Rio de Janeiro and raised in South Florida, returned to Brazil last year. A Harvard Business School graduate, he had been working at an Internet company in Silicon Valley and unsuccessfully trying to develop a business.

“I spent five months spending my weekends at Starbucks, trying to figure out a start-up in America,” he recalled.

All the while, Harvard friends urged him to make a change. “They were saying: ‘Jon, what are you doing? Go to Brazil and start a business there!’ ” he said.

Relocating to São Paulo, he became an “entrepreneur in residence” at a venture capital firm. He is starting an online eyewear business. “I speak the language, I get the culture, I understand how people do business,” he said.

Calvin Chin was born in Michigan and used to live in San Francisco, where he worked at technology start-ups and his wife was an interior decorator. Mr. Chin’s mother was from China, as were his paternal grandparents. His wife’s parents were from Taiwan.

They are now in Shanghai, where Mr. Chin has started two companies — an online loan service for students and an incubator for technology start-ups. His wife, Angie Wu, has worked as a columnist and television anchor.

The couple have two children, who were born in China.

“The energy here is phenomenal,” Mr. Chin said.

Reetu Jain, 36, an Indian-American raised in Texas, was inspired to move to India while taking time off from her auditing job to travel abroad. Everywhere she went, she said, she met people returning to their countries of origin and felt the “creative energy” in the developing world.

She and her husband, Nehal Sanghavi, who had been working as a lawyer in the United States, moved to Mumbai in January 2011. Embracing a long-held passion, she now works as a dance instructor and choreographer and has acted in television commercials and a Bollywood film.

“We’re surrounded by people who just want to try something new,” Ms. Jain said.

For many of these émigrés, the decision to relocate has confounded — and even angered — their immigrant parents.

When Jason Y. Lee, who was born in Taiwan and raised in the United States, told his parents during college that he wanted to visit Hong Kong, his father refused to pay for the plane ticket.

“His mind-set was, ‘I worked so hard to bring you to America and now you want to go back to China?’ ” recalled Mr. Lee, 29.

Since then, Mr. Lee has started an import-export business between the United States and China; studied in Shanghai; worked for investment banks in New York and Singapore; and created an international job-search Web site in India. He works for an investment firm in Singapore. His father’s opposition has softened.

Margareth Tran — whose family followed a path over two generations from China to the United States by way of Cambodia, Thailand, Hong Kong and France — said her father was displeased by her decision in 2009 to relocate.

“It’s kind of crazy for him that I wanted to move to China,” said Ms. Tran, 26, who was born in France and moved to the United States at age 11. “He wants me to have all the benefits that come from a first-world country.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/16/us/mo ... _LO_MST_FB
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Re: Reverse migration

Postby TainanCowboy » 18 Apr 2012, 10:52

I guess that piece could also be saying..."Hey...Look at the smart talented folks leaving the U.S.A. !"


...could be.
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Re: Reverse migration

Postby headhonchoII » 18 Apr 2012, 11:28

It's exagerrated, most of them won't last 6 months back in the 'homeland' that is a foreign land to them too. It's the usual NYtimes examples of investment bankers and online start-ups and IT contractors...YAWWWNNN.

Bullshit creative energy, loads of money yes, creative energy my ass. I travel in almost all the countries mentioned and creativity is almost nowhere to be found.
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Re: Reverse migration

Postby the bear » 18 Apr 2012, 11:53

“The energy here is phenomenal,” Mr. Chin said.

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Re: Reverse migration

Postby Shaktipalooza » 18 Apr 2012, 12:16

headhonchoII wrote:Bullshit creative energy, loads of money yes, creative energy my ass. I travel in almost all the countries mentioned and creativity is almost nowhere to be found.


To me that's the whole point. The money is flowing into these places, great opportunities for creative people with western training and work habits.

There is a growing trend of recent college grads looking for work overseas. Not surprising considering how many of them are unable to find work and end up moving back in with their parents.
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Re: Reverse migration

Postby headhonchoII » 18 Apr 2012, 12:30

Yes there is a trend of people moving East to look for work. There are more opportunities for people who can step outside their comfort zone. That is not most people. I've been to Mumbai a few times and there is no way most Indian-Americans are going to move there. They just won't hack it. It's a vibrant city but also full of disturbing sights and it's just hard to do things there...whether go for a job in the park (what parks?), take a subway (what subway, hang off the train?), drive to the shop (you can drive but it may take an hour or two to get back), walk on the pavement with your kids (what pavement?). Are they going to get a job in a local enterprise and accept the low pay and poor working conditions?
So they are going to open an enterprise in India and will be they be able to compete with the locals who grew up there , have more contacts and understading of the language and culture?

Even Chinese Americans moving to China which has significantly better infrastructure than India. If they value fresh air and recreational sports they just won't live in China full stop. If they value an international or artistic environment you won't get it in China either. Well maybe you will if you are from nowhereville, USA.

Also moving to Asia opens up some opportunities but closes many others. How do you enter a public service position? They account for an awful lot of career opportunities that will not be accessible.

It's also not clear that a second generation American can really fit in and understand the nation they are moving to. I have met plenty of ABCs in Taiwan and their ignorance of Taiwan was, to be honest, pretty astounding (actually I have met some locals and other foreigners like that too :)). They are still perceived as outsiders here. I believe it will be the same in China. It is the 'hai gui', first generation returned immigrants, who can really do well. But in the end it is the people who never migrated at all who will do the best as they are truly part of the culture and system.

Also I don't see the creativity especially referring to the Indian lady above (let's be honest Indians can be prone to superlatives). Is Bollywood creative or does she mean that moving to India allowed her to pursue her creative side being a choreographer and dancer?
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Re: Reverse migration

Postby Shaktipalooza » 18 Apr 2012, 13:06

"You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take." ~ Wayne Gretzky

headhonchoII wrote:Yes there is a trend of people moving East to look for work. There are more opportunities for people who can step outside their comfort zone. That is not most people.

Once again, that's a really good thing if you're not most people
I've been to Mumbai a few times and there is no way most Indian-Americans are going to move there. They just won't hack it. It's a vibrant city but also full of disturbing sights and it's just hard to do things there...whether go for a job in the park (what parks?), take a subway (what subway, hang off the train?), drive to the shop (you can drive but it may take an hour or two to get back), walk on the pavement with your kids (what pavement?). Are they going to get a job in a local enterprise and accept the low pay and poor working conditions?
So they are going to open an enterprise in India and will be they be able to compete with the locals who grew up there , have more contacts and understading of the language and culture?

Does every job in Asia instantly mean low pay and poor working conditions?

I'll be the first to agree that much of India is a shithole. Still, I find the place incredibly interesting and even tried to move there once (long story).

It's difficult to appreciate the motive for people in the Desi community wishing to repatriate. Culture and family are very strong motivators. My wife was born and raised in India. We would certainly consider a semi permanent move there just for the sake of our children understanding their own culture. We have Desi friends who right now are looking at job opportunities in India for their next assignment.
Also I don't see the creativity especially referring to the Indian lady above (let's be honest Indians can be prone to superlatives). Is Bollywood creative or does she mean that moving to India allowed her to pursue her creative side being a choreographer and dancer?

Right or wrong, coming back from the west can give instant street cred for many cultures, especially India. And finally yes, Bollywood is helluh creative. I'm sure I'll catch flak on that one. :discodance:
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Re: Reverse migration

Postby Deuce Dropper » 18 Apr 2012, 13:08

It is a lot easier to start a company and begin making money with much less overhead in Asia than it is in the West. This just a fact. Nothing new in this article. Once the economy improves, the sheep will flock back to the corporate jobs (when they start hiring again) because they'd rather swim in a school than go it alone and find the comfort of their warm wet steady paycheck diaper soothing.

For now though, while the job market is shit, some people will try this and have success.
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Reverse migration

Postby headhonchoII » 18 Apr 2012, 13:14

There are great opportunities in Asia but it's only for the go getters like you both said. I also enjoyed my visits to India in spite of the 'hardships' traveling there, I can agree it is full of energy and the people are interesting to talk to and the diverse languages and culture make it unique. I find it 10x more interesting than China.

Asia just needs to clean up it's living and social environment and then you could really see a mass of people moving out this way.

All in all though the US is going to come back strong and the whole Asia is the only future is overblown.
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Re: Reverse migration

Postby Icon » 18 Apr 2012, 14:19

I was reading this more in terms like what happened in Taiwan when the first high tech entreprises took off -the Texas Instruments, the Acers, etc- which was fueled by making conditions here suitable for people who had left Taiwan for their studies to want to come back and work in Taiwan.

So I'd say it's double fold: a better environment -business environment that is, the jury is still out on the living environment regarding BRIC or any "on the go" nation- attracting creative, thinking out of the box individuals. Whether long or short term, right now, it's a win-win situation.

I recently helped a Taiwanese friend raised in my birth country who is currently stydying in the US with his essay, where was arguing, from a regulatory/leagl point of view, that it was easier/better to make business in our ol' country than in the US. He had a couple of good points there, actually, regarding the tangle of federal/local regulations. Nevertheless, I woul argue in favor of safety in the US. Furthermore, surely you could speed thinsg even more with a nice hong bao, but there are even more cases of officials taking the hong bao and then kicking you out and stealing your business idea. Such is life in the tropics...
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