The Police State at Work

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The Police State at Work

Postby Fox » 16 May 2012, 06:02

Here is an amazing example of how Australia has succumb to a police state.

A stolen car was speeding on a freeway in Melbourne. Police ordered people driving along the freeway to block the road. The road block stretched from shoulder to shoulder and was deep (at least seven or eight cars, according to other articles, though this says three). The police remained on the safe side of the road block and ordered people to stay in their cars --families with children, elderly, the average Joe. The car then smashed into the road-block collecting seven or eight cars. That is insane. Human shields. Interestingly enough, I live in Queensland and no news broadcast here has considered it to be of sufficient public interest to play on the news.

''I'm 17 years old, and currently doing VCE at Melbourne High School. I was on my way home from tutor on Saturday morning and my mum was supervising, as I was driving. Approximately around 11.30, while I was heading south bound on the Hume Freeway, I encountered a police vehicle, and all the cars on the freeway were brought to a halt.
The police officers exited their vehicle, and firmly instructed the traffic to form three lanes, occupying the emergency lane as well. I was right at the front of the traffic, and I initially assumed that it was a routine check. However, upon hearing the helicopter above us, and witnessing the blockage of the emergency lane, I had a feeling that this was something more serious.
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A man is taken into custody on the Hume Freeway in Melbourne’s outer north after he crashed into a blockade of people’s cars set up by police. Photo: Madhawa Mapa
The next few minutes went very fast. One second, the police officer was approaching my car. The next second she seemed to be pre-occupied with something behind my car. Before I knew it, there was a loud bang; a huge force to my back and I knew something had rammed into the back of my car. The offender's car then crashed into the concrete wall. As the man got out of the car, reality kicked in, and I realized that this guy could potentially be armed, and I feared for my life.
It was only later that I was properly informed that my mum and I had been used as a civilian roadblock. My mum and I were put in a position of extreme danger.
I'm still trying to comprehend how the police can justify the use of innocent civilian lives.''


Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/im-st ... z1uyg59mnL
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The Police State at Work

Postby headhonchoII » 16 May 2012, 07:10

They can probably sue the police and state for damages, happy days. Sounds like the police just asked to block the emergency lane but should have used their own cars or a stinger.
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Re: The Police State at Work

Postby baberenglish » 16 May 2012, 08:19

What people in their right mind would take those orders from the police?
What are they going to do if you refuse? Arrest you for what? Oh I know...refusal to cooperate in a police pursuit and not participating in a human shield...
hard to believe the police can justify the officer's actions.
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Re: The Police State at Work

Postby Fox » 17 May 2012, 18:02

What amazes me about that story, is that no one cares and it just seemed to sail through to the keeper. When I mentioned it to colleagues, I got responses like, "Did they catch him?".


Imagine if some police tried to pull a stunt like that in Taiwan. The police commissioner and Minister would be falling over themselves to resign.
"When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her." Wilde

"I don't know where the sun beams end and the star light begins. It's all a mystery." Flaming Lips

"a man's position here is not ruled so much by what he can earn as by what he can owe and still remain at large." Letters of a Shanghai Griffin

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

The American oligarchy spares no pains in promoting the belief that it does not exist, but the success of its disappearing act depends on equally strenuous efforts on the part of an American public anxious to believe in egalitarian fictions and unwilling to see what is hidden in plain sight.
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The Police State at Work

Postby headhonchoII » 17 May 2012, 18:44

Reverse culture shock Fox, what seems bloody stupid to you is normal for the locals. They have never known any better way and won't take kindly to you telling them that either!
I can remember the fourth of July runnin' through the backwood bare.
And I can still hear my old hound dog barkin' chasin' down a hoodoo there
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Re: The Police State at Work

Postby urodacus » 17 May 2012, 23:34

Fox, mate, that sounds full sick man.

And I mean that in the best possible way!
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Re: The Police State at Work

Postby Fox » 18 May 2012, 05:48

urodacus wrote:Fox, mate, that sounds full sick man.

And I mean that in the best possible way!


You sound full sick -------in the head, man. IN THE HEAD.

headhonchoII wrote:Reverse culture shock Fox, what seems bloody stupid to you is normal for the locals. They have never known any better way and won't take kindly to you telling them that either!


I did hear from my sister today that the have suspended the police involved. But that kind of action is a cultural thing with in the police force. The simple fact that they thought it was OK and reasonable, tells you the Minister and Commissioner should be the ones standing down. That's a no brainer.
"When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her." Wilde

"I don't know where the sun beams end and the star light begins. It's all a mystery." Flaming Lips

"a man's position here is not ruled so much by what he can earn as by what he can owe and still remain at large." Letters of a Shanghai Griffin

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

The American oligarchy spares no pains in promoting the belief that it does not exist, but the success of its disappearing act depends on equally strenuous efforts on the part of an American public anxious to believe in egalitarian fictions and unwilling to see what is hidden in plain sight.
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Re: The Police State at Work

Postby Toe Save » 18 May 2012, 12:20

I have an old friend and classmate who is on the force down under. I linked him to this thread. Here is his response:
I've looked at the post and as much as the source material as I can find. I'll have to post thru you (very strict rules re: identifying myself as a cop on line) Something did happen but given occ health and safety rules in aus there is not a snow balls chance in hell members of the public would be ordered to form a road block. People may have perceived it that way, but at best they would have been directed to stop due to the dangerous driving of the fleeing vehicle. Members of the public cannot be directed by Police to put their lives or property at risk. This would not be ethical or lawful under any circumstances. Being "in the know" at some very high risk very intense and dangerous situations, at a very basic tenant is that we would sooner a bad guy get away than any member of the public be put at risk. Each state has varying pursuit policies but in South Australia, there is what amounts to no pursuit unless to terminate would put someones life at risk...but the more dangerous a person's driving is the less likely there is to be any kind of extended pursuit. Something happened in Victoria but how that is being reported is incorrect or willfully misleading. Every single major incident I have been involved in which has been reported in the media (including a triple murder and the shooting of a police officer) has included several factual errors...often the media pieces together a story from members of the public who saw some bits of what happened, heard about other bits from others or/and are lead in certain directions by creative reporters. They have never gotten the whole story correct...ever. All that being said, police are normal people with some training and are granted some extraordinary authorities and sometimes they can screw up...if this is the case I expect there will be sackings and criminal charges; I'm 100 % certain that an action such as this would never be authorized by anyone. While Police are often looked at as being aggressive, power hungry wanna be tough guys(there are some of those around, don't get me wrong) most are people who want to provide a service to the community and do the things or intervene where most wouldn't. The pressure and scrutiny is often overwhelming...to make sometimes life altering decisions for ourselves and others. Ask yourself this, if you make a mistake at your job do you face the prospect of criminal charges? I do , everyday...a judgment error doesn't just come with a reprimand I could face jail...but I love it and I'm doing my bit for the community to make it safer for everyone; people who think Australia is a police state have never experienced what a police state is like.
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Re: The Police State at Work

Postby Fox » 18 May 2012, 14:49

Toe Save wrote:I have an old friend and classmate who is on the force down under. I linked him to this thread. Here is his response:
I've looked at the post and as much as the source material as I can find. I'll have to post thru you (very strict rules re: identifying myself as a cop on line) Something did happen but given occ health and safety rules in aus there is not a snow balls chance in hell members of the public would be ordered to form a road block. People may have perceived it that way, but at best they would have been directed to stop due to the dangerous driving of the fleeing vehicle. Members of the public cannot be directed by Police to put their lives or property at risk. This would not be ethical or lawful under any circumstances. Being "in the know" at some very high risk very intense and dangerous situations, at a very basic tenant is that we would sooner a bad guy get away than any member of the public be put at risk. Each state has varying pursuit policies but in South Australia, there is what amounts to no pursuit unless to terminate would put someones life at risk...but the more dangerous a person's driving is the less likely there is to be any kind of extended pursuit. Something happened in Victoria but how that is being reported is incorrect or willfully misleading. Every single major incident I have been involved in which has been reported in the media (including a triple murder and the shooting of a police officer) has included several factual errors...often the media pieces together a story from members of the public who saw some bits of what happened, heard about other bits from others or/and are lead in certain directions by creative reporters. They have never gotten the whole story correct...ever. All that being said, police are normal people with some training and are granted some extraordinary authorities and sometimes they can screw up...if this is the case I expect there will be sackings and criminal charges; I'm 100 % certain that an action such as this would never be authorized by anyone. While Police are often looked at as being aggressive, power hungry wanna be tough guys(there are some of those around, don't get me wrong) most are people who want to provide a service to the community and do the things or intervene where most wouldn't. The pressure and scrutiny is often overwhelming...to make sometimes life altering decisions for ourselves and others. Ask yourself this, if you make a mistake at your job do you face the prospect of criminal charges? I do , everyday...a judgment error doesn't just come with a reprimand I could face jail...but I love it and I'm doing my bit for the community to make it safer for everyone; people who think Australia is a police state have never experienced what a police state is like.


All I can say to that is this:
Note the direct quotes--no spin -- I saw the same live interview myself.

A man says a speeding driver crashed into his car after he was directed by police to form a roadblock on the Hume Freeway.

David Rendina was driving down the Hume Freeway on Saturday morning with girlfriend and two children, aged 8 and 9 years old.

He had had a call from his girlfriend's mother saying she'd heard something about a pursuit on the freeway.

"At the time I sort of didn't think too much about it," says David.

About a kilometre before the Western Ring Rd at Epping, police were stopping all southbound traffic.

He says police directed traffic to fill the two lanes and the emergency lane, bringing three lanes of traffic to a standstill.

"I followed two other vehicles into the emergency lane," says David. "I'm the last one in line."

"I pretty much knew I was a sitting duck," says David. "I just remember seeing him speeding towards me."

David Rendina says the speeding car drove into the emergency lane and hit his car and several others.

He says police arrested the driver, took statements from those with damaged cars and made sure no one was injured.

David Rendina's car, a nine-month-old 2011 Nissan Navara Ute, has been left undrivable and he's unsure if it can be fixed.

David is an electrician has been left unable to work.

He says his children have had nightmares about the incident.

David Rendina says he doesn't believe it was worth the police putting his children at risk simply to capture a stolen vehicle.

Mr Rendina says he was put in a position he couldn't get out of.

"I was stuck there," he says.


I can agree with many of your friends comments but the truth is it did happen as I said according to very credible witnesses such as the man above and it can only be viewed as telling of the culture within the police force that anyone would think that was a good idea. I think people would expect nothing more than the minister to resign over that. You cannot have police using people to form road blocks. End of subject. You can't even have that thought out there, let alone the reality. That's what happened, however. As it happens I have lived in a police state at least wise one under martial law and the breaking out of it. I saw some pretty strange things but nothing as strange as the police ordering the citizenry to form road blocks. No one would be that bat shit crazy.
"When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her." Wilde

"I don't know where the sun beams end and the star light begins. It's all a mystery." Flaming Lips

"a man's position here is not ruled so much by what he can earn as by what he can owe and still remain at large." Letters of a Shanghai Griffin

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

The American oligarchy spares no pains in promoting the belief that it does not exist, but the success of its disappearing act depends on equally strenuous efforts on the part of an American public anxious to believe in egalitarian fictions and unwilling to see what is hidden in plain sight.
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Re: The Police State at Work

Postby Fox » 18 May 2012, 15:09

Fox wrote:
Toe Save wrote:I have an old friend and classmate who is on the force down under. I linked him to this thread. Here is his response:
I've looked at the post and as much as the source material as I can find. I'll have to post thru you (very strict rules re: identifying myself as a cop on line) Something did happen but given occ health and safety rules in aus there is not a snow balls chance in hell members of the public would be ordered to form a road block. People may have perceived it that way, but at best they would have been directed to stop due to the dangerous driving of the fleeing vehicle. Members of the public cannot be directed by Police to put their lives or property at risk. This would not be ethical or lawful under any circumstances. Being "in the know" at some very high risk very intense and dangerous situations, at a very basic tenant is that we would sooner a bad guy get away than any member of the public be put at risk. Each state has varying pursuit policies but in South Australia, there is what amounts to no pursuit unless to terminate would put someones life at risk...but the more dangerous a person's driving is the less likely there is to be any kind of extended pursuit. Something happened in Victoria but how that is being reported is incorrect or willfully misleading. Every single major incident I have been involved in which has been reported in the media (including a triple murder and the shooting of a police officer) has included several factual errors...often the media pieces together a story from members of the public who saw some bits of what happened, heard about other bits from others or/and are lead in certain directions by creative reporters. They have never gotten the whole story correct...ever. All that being said, police are normal people with some training and are granted some extraordinary authorities and sometimes they can screw up...if this is the case I expect there will be sackings and criminal charges; I'm 100 % certain that an action such as this would never be authorized by anyone. While Police are often looked at as being aggressive, power hungry wanna be tough guys(there are some of those around, don't get me wrong) most are people who want to provide a service to the community and do the things or intervene where most wouldn't. The pressure and scrutiny is often overwhelming...to make sometimes life altering decisions for ourselves and others. Ask yourself this, if you make a mistake at your job do you face the prospect of criminal charges? I do , everyday...a judgment error doesn't just come with a reprimand I could face jail...but I love it and I'm doing my bit for the community to make it safer for everyone; people who think Australia is a police state have never experienced what a police state is like.


All I can say to that is this:
Note the direct quotes--no spin -- I saw the same live interview myself.

A man says a speeding driver crashed into his car after he was directed by police to form a roadblock on the Hume Freeway.

David Rendina was driving down the Hume Freeway on Saturday morning with girlfriend and two children, aged 8 and 9 years old.

He had had a call from his girlfriend's mother saying she'd heard something about a pursuit on the freeway.

"At the time I sort of didn't think too much about it," says David.

About a kilometre before the Western Ring Rd at Epping, police were stopping all southbound traffic.

He says police directed traffic to fill the two lanes and the emergency lane, bringing three lanes of traffic to a standstill.

"I followed two other vehicles into the emergency lane," says David. "I'm the last one in line."

"I pretty much knew I was a sitting duck," says David. "I just remember seeing him speeding towards me."

David Rendina says the speeding car drove into the emergency lane and hit his car and several others.

He says police arrested the driver, took statements from those with damaged cars and made sure no one was injured.

David Rendina's car, a nine-month-old 2011 Nissan Navara Ute, has been left undrivable and he's unsure if it can be fixed.

David is an electrician has been left unable to work.

He says his children have had nightmares about the incident.

David Rendina says he doesn't believe it was worth the police putting his children at risk simply to capture a stolen vehicle.

Mr Rendina says he was put in a position he couldn't get out of.

"I was stuck there," he says.


I can agree with many of your friends comments but the truth is it did happen as I said according to very credible witnesses such as the man above and it can only be viewed as telling of the culture within the police force that anyone would think that was a good idea. I think people would expect nothing more than the minister to resign over that. You cannot have police using people to form road blocks. End of subject. You can't even have that thought out there, let alone the reality. That's what happened, however. As it happens I have lived in a police state at least wise one under martial law and the breaking out of it. I saw some pretty strange things but nothing as strange as the police ordering the citizenry to form road blocks. No one would be that bat shit crazy.



Here's the assistant police commissioner's response:
In January, Mr Walshe said police were reviewing pursuit policy. This followed the death of a young passenger after a police pursuit in Dandenong.

Victoria Police Assistant Commissioner Stephen Fontana said yesterday that it was unclear how members of the public had become involved in the roadblock.

''This guy was driving like a maniac, to be quite frank,'' Mr Fontana told the ABC.

''Our members … were trying to do their best to actually reduce the risk to anyone in the community.'' He said the tactic had worked in so far as the speeding driver ''slowed right down'' before hitting anyone...."


Image

Listen here to Jon Fane ABC interview:
http://www.abc.net.au/local/stories/2012/05/15/3502926.htm
"When liberty comes with hands dabbled in blood it is hard to shake hands with her." Wilde

"I don't know where the sun beams end and the star light begins. It's all a mystery." Flaming Lips

"a man's position here is not ruled so much by what he can earn as by what he can owe and still remain at large." Letters of a Shanghai Griffin

"It's called the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it." George Carlin

The American oligarchy spares no pains in promoting the belief that it does not exist, but the success of its disappearing act depends on equally strenuous efforts on the part of an American public anxious to believe in egalitarian fictions and unwilling to see what is hidden in plain sight.
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