Academic cheating in Taiwan

[archylgp]

U.S. universitys' use some sort of exam for graduate programmes. There is a computer version and a paper version. They don't let people in a handful of East Asian countries do the computer version in their own countries because there's a smaller number of questions and all of the answers can be found online. East Asians game the system massively. So, all the East Asians do is fly to Thailand or the Philippines (my friend's fiancee went to the Philippines) and do it there.

It's well known that plenty of Asians at universities in Australia get other people to write their assignments for them. The system is a joke, but the joke is as much upon the Western universities and countries who have whored themselves out like this. They are selling Asian countries the rope with which to hang the West because these Asian countries will later compete with the West (some might argue that they will be deficient, but I don't think to enough of a degree) and also, the Western students at universities in the West must suffer also. I know that if I had studied a Bachelor of Commerce I would have been pretty pissed off having these guys in my classes, even more so if I had had to do group work with them or if they'd outscored me on assignments that they had plagiarised or got someone else to write for them.

I agree completely. But it's not the universities fault. State funding in schools decreases year after year. Using my alma mater as an example, the proportion of funding that is cut each year tops the last year's record high cut. By law, tuition can only be raised 10% a year for local students. The schools are making up for this lack through the higher tuition rates that international students pay. Unfortunately, having the money to sustain the school's appearance as is trumps quality. (I graduated before this started, but even then I thought my classes were too easy...)

[archylgp]

I have a friend in a doctorate program here. His professors told him to copy stuff directly out of his sources and then just try to re-word the material for his papers. He has been doing this for years. This kind of copying is normal in many departments as far as I can tell, although I personally know of one rigorous professor who does good work; if I was in his department, I would still be in grad school here...

[GuyInTaiwan]

arch: That's a good point. In that case, universities should either be allowed to charge more to local students or the government should fund education, depending upon which model you prefer. There's so much short term thinking involved.

[finley]

I have a friend in a doctorate program here. His professors told him to copy stuff directly out of his sources and then just try to re-word the material for his papers. He has been doing this for years. This kind of copying is normal in many departments as far as I can tell, although I personally know of one rigorous professor who does good work; if I was in his department, I would still be in grad school here...

A cousin of my ex-gf wanted me to review one of his Master's papers once. He had done exactly this: just re-phrased another paper that had been written by his supervisor. I get the impression that this is not only acceptable, but some sort of bizarre flattery: I suggested to him that, if he was going to do that, he should at least conclude with a critique of the algorithm (it was a machine-vision topic) and make suggestions for future research or improvements. As it was, it wouldn't have even passed muster as an undergrad report in the UK. He was horrified, and mumbled something about just needing my help checking the english. In other words, this is the way we do it here, so please don't interfere with your barbarian ideas. He never asked me to review anything else

[Icon]

I have had several bad experiences with academics here. The ultimate was the copy paste syndrome, you pay them to write something original and they do not even bother to try, or change something, but copy paste from actual published stuff. And since they are "untouchable" due to their "fame" -not even serniority- well, you can only fork the money and hope you never cross their path again. No shame at all.

Same teachers send their assitants to teach, because they are too busy to do so. This happens all over the world but in Taiwan it seems more "acceptable", even more "honorable" -as in it is an honor that someone so busy would grace us with the honor of saying we attended his/her class even though he/she wasn't physically there. Name is what matters. Most college studnets are doing what we call in Spanish "acto de presencia" -meaning show their faces, present in body but not in mind.

I blame it on politics. The people who came first at the universities had no real knowledge of the topic, they were set there to fill the space with the "right" people, not the locals. So, they were replaced by their descendants -wonder why so many civil servants are sons/daughters of civil servants-, who might have had a bit more knowledge but also a lot of entitlement attitude. These are the ones doing most of the teaching and keeping the decison making posts to themselves.

As long as the students cannot create/think for themselves/do anything but repeat the status quo, the system is intact and everything works as it has always done... Hence, no incentive to have students write original material and hence the incentive to copy paste.

[headhonchoII]

When I worked with professors from the biological sciences in Academia Sinica I got a good impression of their research abilities, or rather their M.Sc and PhD candidates who did the work for them. It's not easy to hide in the sciences.

So the division of labour was the problem I had with them, that they could make a PhD student wait up to 7 years for his PhD, meanwhile they would churn out papers for the Prof!

[archylgp]

Yeah -- copying your professor is expected. Not copying is disrespectful...

When I worked with professors from the biological sciences in Academia Sinica I got a good impression of their research abilities, or rather their M.Sc and PhD candidates who did the work for them. It's not easy to hide in the sciences.

So the division of labour was the problem I had with them, that they could make a PhD student wait up to 7 years for his PhD, meanwhile they would churn out papers for the Prof!

I've only had good experiences at Academia Sinica. Most professors here have nothing to do with it, though.

[urodacus]

Yeah -- copying your professor is expected. Not copying is disrespectful...

When I worked with professors from the biological sciences in Academia Sinica I got a good impression of their research abilities, or rather their M.Sc and PhD candidates who did the work for them. It's not easy to hide in the sciences.

So the division of labour was the problem I had with them, that they could make a PhD student wait up to 7 years for his PhD, meanwhile they would churn out papers for the Prof!

I've only had good experiences at Academia Sinica. Most professors here have nothing to do with it, though.

Mostly good experience at AS. That is a first rate institution, or collection of institutions to be more precise.

But there are more than a few professors who keep the best students for way too long so they can do all their work for them. Plus, there is no way any professor can provide suitable supervision and mentoring of more than, say, three or four grad students. And there are labs with ten-fifteen poor grad students all muddling their way through without any support from the boss, or downright antagonism and stealing their work, uncredited. Shocking stuff, and part of the reason I left for better pastures. Plus the pay sucks big time.