Western White-Collar Workers Pouring into Hong Kong

[the bear]

When I go to international conferences I get asked "Are you #1 in your market?" and I say "maybe, but you have to remember being #1 in Taiwan is a bit like getting gold at the Special Olympics.

I know you meant nothing by it but "Special Olympics" jokes are no longer considered funny. An Olympic gold medal is a meritorious achievement whether won by an able-bodied or a disabled athlete.

[archylgp]

I enjoyed reading this post. Hope to read more. I haven't thought about this kind of stuff for a long time. Here are some questions: Could it be that FDI is low because the Taiwanese prefer to keep the power that comes with investment in the island? (I know that banks work hard on getting their customers to invest.) Or could it be that for foreigners to invest practices here would need to change? And if so, what kinds of things would need to change?

[trubadour]

in a word: rule of law

[headhonchoII]

Rule of law? Taiwan has better rule of law than China or Vietnam or Thailand, but it doesn't have the large internal markets or low costs associated with those countries.

Land is pretty scarce and expensive here which also doesn't help , FDI would need to compete with local manufacturers for zoned land. Taiwan doesn't really need manufacturing FDI, there are enough job opps,but it sure could do with some service type FDI.

The banking system seems to be pretty profitable here but not big enough to compete in investment and IPO banking. To operate like HK would mean changing the tax and banking regulations, maybe not something that would be a good thing overall given the mixed nature of the economy.

[Huang Guang Chen]

It's been a reasonable interlude, but if I may step in for a moment.

It's 8 or so years since I stepped off the ROC bound for HK, which I loathed then and still don't much like all these years later. And now I'm a permanent resident. I am (still, for now) in finance, so that may obscure my vision. But I do have a China studies background, and increasingly illiterate in Chinese.

I think the pull, especially in the period you initially mentioned, Omni, was as smart European and Yanks (apologies, that's my blanket term for North Americans, all of youse) realised what was ahead, and like rats out of a sinking ship, they sent their recently minted or minting and pampered kids here to get a job, any job. Do their China time. Or even, just get a damned job. It being summer, my office is packed with eager eyed youngsters from the old world and ranked universities, all working finance type hours for zip, just to get the experience. They'll combine the office time with some considered forays into China, usually following links and contacts made during their internship. Sometimes they get lucky, and a hole opens up.

I also heard from a friend in the Macau Tourist Board that the number of applicants from Portugal for Macau gigs, especially government jobs, where they have some advantage given sunset laws about the use of Portuguese, have blown out exponentially, much like unemployment in all of the PIGS.

Of late, I've also noticed through head hunter bulletins and people I meet that there's a considerable number of big bank and other types tying themselves to China, and with a longer term to Asia in general, as SE Asia is "indisputably" best placed demographically for the next number of years.

Aside from unemployment, why?

First up. Taiwan (mercifully) isn't China, but HK sort of is. The focus in HK is constantly on China. The rule of law thing still applies, and so China watchers of old have been re-inflated here in HK in recent years. There's also old money here.

Second: Immigration is amazingly simple. You got a job, you get one year, and you can stay that period even if you lose that job tomorrow. After seven years, with far less effort than applying for a Taiwanese visa for my Thai passported daughter, I slipped some forms, was forced to mutter an explanation about why I couldn't sign the I don't have a crim record form, and was granted permanent residence.

I have had credit cards since I arrived. Under my name, obviously. I have no question about asking for a mortgage, if I so desired. In fact, I have all the freedoms I would have in my home country, and far more than I could possibly dream of in Taiwan. Obviously voting might be an issue, if democracy existed here. Only in the sense that I'd be forced to consider for a moment if I could be arsed getting off the couch to vote for one sad, corrupt bastard over another. It's compulsory in Australia.

My daughter is about to enter high school here. i won't go into details, but it's an English curriculum, which I want for my Thai mother-toungued daughter, but with Chinese (Putonghua - sorry, it just is) as a compulsory second language (third in her case), and the school has a reputation for being an academically minded establishment. AND it's amazingly cheaper than any English option I could think of in Taiwan, or Thailand (~NT$100,000 a year).

Should Taiwan be doing more and better to compete with Hong Kong in attracting international talent? Could it have realistic hopes of competing? What could it offer to make itself more attractive than Hong Kong?

Yes, and yes again. Sort out the stupid immigration laws, free up access to financial institutions and offer better schooling options for expats. Can you get your own phone line without a promise from your spouse to cover you if you run in Taiwan these days? On first try?

If you're not married to a local in Taiwan, it's a hard road. If you are, you still only get half of what you get on your own merit in HK. That said, I frequently return to Taiwan. Love the place to bits. I'd be back in a flash, but not without some serious changes.

Bestest.
HG

[Mucha Man]

Great post, Huang, and good to have you back.

One question, even if Taiwan made its immigration and banking easier how would it integrate a lot of expats into the general business culture? It just occurred to me that if they were smart they would start trying to attract people like you, that is those with China experience, and possibly language skills already. The number is certainly massive already and growing year by year. Hmm...

[Huang Guang Chen]

One question, even if Taiwan made its immigration and banking easier how would it integrate a lot of expats into the general business culture? It just occurred to me that if they were smart they would start trying to attract people like you, that is those with China experience, and possibly language skills already. The number is certainly massive already and growing year by year. Hmm...

Immigration and banking are big asks. Taiwan has moved extremely slowly, by comparison, on rights for expats in these areas. And I don't think that at this point, Taiwan can, or more importantly, wants to attract expats. Politically, unemployment is a clear issue, as Taiwan has lost so many of its own people to China - what is that ridiculous figure? Something like a million Taiwanese in greater Shanghai alone? What's more, I think there's more than enough foreign folks already in Taiwan with the experience and certainly the language, and some of those that I know can't seem to get decent gigs anymore, and are considering leaving, or have left.

I hate to say it, but from my distant view, and occasional returns, I see a simmering and gradually increasing level of xenophobia in Taiwan. In one instance, I saw an office almost completely stripped of it's adogahs, all of whom had been there for years, and replaced by Taiwanese. Basically because the head honcho didn't like whitey.

One area Taiwan could work on is offering an alternative place of residence for expats working in foreign offices based in Shanghai. Certainly a nicer place for families, and if they brought down the stupid prices on those flights from Taipei to Shanghai, they could be in and out commuters. BUT, we come back to the residency/immigration, banking and general ease of life. I can't imagine what it must be like to live in Taiwan and not be able to speak/read Chinese, but I am certain that it's far more difficult than it is to live in HK, Singapore or even Shanghai these days.

One other option is almost impossible, and for me at least, undesirable, and that's even closer ties with China, as per HK. Where this idea stumbles, is that murky grey area that is Taiwan law, or rather, how it's applied/interpreted, which is both a blessing when it works in your favour, and a curse when it doesn't.

In any case, I suspect that the job market here in HK, and pretty much everywhere, is about to stumble badly. Certainly in the finance sector.

HG

[headhonchoII]

Taipei is an easy place to live for expats, government officers here have good English ,friendly attitude, safe ,
lots of things to do etc. That's not the problem really. It's just a lack of easy money to be made here with lack of work opportunities. People follow the money. Flights are also very convenient now.

[Huang Guang Chen]

Taipei is an easy place to live for expats, government officers here have good English ,friendly attitude, safe ,
lots of things to do etc. That's not the problem really. It's just a lack of easy money to be made here with lack of work opportunities. People follow the money. Flights are also very convenient now.

What about the ability to get a visa, local credit card, mobile phone subscription, and mortgage for someone commuting to a job based in Shanghai and not married to a Taiwanese?

I agree, people follow the money, or where they think it will appear next. And thus all the doey-eyed grads in HK and Shanghai working for nothing, and bank-rolled by their wealthy parents.

HG

[Omniloquacious]

HGC,

It's good to hear from you again, and good to have your inside perspective from across the water.