Recovering Stolen Property

All issues that are not covered by the following legal forums may be posted here.
Forum rules
While the moderators are happy to help point people in the right direction for legal assistance and to attempt to keep these forums civil and tidy, please bear in mind that an Internet forum is not the place for providing or receiving legal advice or for the creation of any attorney-client privileges or obligations. Also keep in mind that Forumosa and the moderators cannot conduct comprehensive reviews of all laws or legal concepts referenced or discussed within these forums – laws and regulations are updated and amended, interpretations do change, and sometimes the legal landscape can change very fast. Forumosa provides these legal forums for general informational purposes only. By using these legal forums, you agree that the information does not constitute legal or other professional advice and no attorney-client or other relationship is created between you and any other posters on these forums. DO NOT CONSIDER THE FORUMS TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR OBTAINING LEGAL ADVICE FROM A QUALIFIED LICENSED ATTORNEY.

Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby finley » 10 Dec 2011, 23:53

That's what I thought. Surely if you can prove that the property is yours, and you take it back, you're not actually stealing anything. By definition, theft must involve taking somebody else's property. Even in Taiwan. Although, presented with that little logical conundrum, you can imagine this happening in the courtroom ...

"Global warming is happening and we KNOW that man is 100 percent responsible!!!"
- Fred Smith
Forumosan avatar
finley
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
 
Posts: 5904
Joined: 20 Jan 2011, 23:34
852 Recommends(s)
654 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby Satellite TV » 11 Dec 2011, 00:05

finley wrote:That's what I thought. Surely if you can prove that the property is yours, and you take it back, you're not actually stealing anything. By definition, theft must involve taking somebody else's property. Even in Taiwan. Although, presented with that little logical conundrum, you can imagine this happening in the courtroom ...


The reason you have police and courts is so that people do not become vigilantes. Having papers showing that you onced owned certain things does not prove you own it now.
As the goods have been reported stolen and insurance paid then the ownership of the property would then fall to the insurance company to follow up on. Just going to the place and taking things would yes mean you are stealing them.
It's such a pleasure living in a world where everyone is in such a hurry to be outraged over someone else’s trivial comments
Forumosan avatar
Satellite TV
Entering Second Childhood (èrdù tóngnián qī)
Entering Second Childhood (èrdù tóngnián qī)
 
Posts: 7071
Joined: 18 Jun 2004, 11:10



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby finley » 11 Dec 2011, 01:17

Oh, sure .. I wasn't suggesting he should. Obviously if the insurance company are on the case, he should let them do their thing. I was just wondering out loud whether it is legally possible to steal something that belongs to you (even cross-border). There was an article on the interweb a while back about some American girl who saw her stolen bike advertised on craigslist. She turned up as a 'buyer', asked to give it a test-drive, and pedalled off on it. The police just told her not to take risks, but there were no charges (not against her, anyway). I understand car-leasing companies do exactly this as a matter of routine: if fees are not paid, someone turns up with the keys and drives it away.

Having papers showing that you onced owned certain things does not prove you own it now.

It most certainly does, at least if the putative "new" owner has nothing to prove that he owns it. The entire concept of property ownership in the west is founded on nothing more concrete than a paper trail and conventions for exchanging that paper. Paper deeds are exchanged for paper money. How would you prove you own your house or your car?
"Global warming is happening and we KNOW that man is 100 percent responsible!!!"
- Fred Smith
Forumosan avatar
finley
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
 
Posts: 5904
Joined: 20 Jan 2011, 23:34
852 Recommends(s)
654 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby Jack Burton » 12 Dec 2011, 12:39

Satellite TV wrote:
finley wrote:That's what I thought. Surely if you can prove that the property is yours, and you take it back, you're not actually stealing anything. By definition, theft must involve taking somebody else's property. Even in Taiwan. Although, presented with that little logical conundrum, you can imagine this happening in the courtroom ...


The reason you have police and courts is so that people do not become vigilantes. Having papers showing that you onced owned certain things does not prove you own it now.
As the goods have been reported stolen and insurance paid then the ownership of the property would then fall to the insurance company to follow up on. Just going to the place and taking things would yes mean you are stealing them.


Thanks for the headsup TM. I haven't done much research into Taiwan treaties (it being a special case and not a "properly recognized country")

You as the owner can prove chain of title, but he, as borrower, cannot. that is where having the right papers count.

and to joschka, extradition and money judgment or rather, replevin, are 2 different things. Tomas was asking about replevin (or in lieu, money judgment) of the property ie not criminal charges, jailtime etc. hence the title.
Jack Burton: I don't get this at all. I thought Lo Pan...
Lo Pan: Shut up, Mr. Burton! You are not brought upon this world to get it!
Forumosan avatar
Jack Burton
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6380
Joined: 01 Apr 2003, 11:35
Location: living in bland suburbia
4 Recommends(s)
49 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby Tigerman » 12 Dec 2011, 16:33

Jack Burton wrote:Thanks for the headsup TM.


You're welcome, Jack!

As you might imagine, we spend a lot of time advising people re this matter, as it comes up frequently.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

From: All Things Considered - The Error of Impartiality
Tigerman
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 17692
Joined: 17 Sep 2002, 12:09
260 Recommends(s)
195 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby tsukinodeynatsu » 13 Dec 2011, 04:17

Why don't you give the court in Taipei a ring and ask them what they think? Both legally and on what would happen if you just rented it and took it home. That might help you decide on your next step.
tsukinodeynatsu
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
 
Posts: 1816
Joined: 10 Jun 2009, 14:40
Location: Tainan
57 Recommends(s)
65 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby Tigerman » 13 Dec 2011, 08:14

tsukinodeynatsu wrote:Why don't you give the court in Taipei a ring and ask them what they think?


Courts do not answer questions unless the issue is being tried.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

From: All Things Considered - The Error of Impartiality
Tigerman
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 17692
Joined: 17 Sep 2002, 12:09
260 Recommends(s)
195 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby tommy525 » 13 Dec 2011, 08:17

Read yesterday about a young mother who went to bout 100feet to a neighboring row house in the UK and asked the people there to turn down their music. She was stabbed and died of her wounds. Motto: Call the police and file a complaint, dont go there and solve it yourself. Let the police go there and let's see if they get attacked like she did.

I concur in this case that Tomas will remain a lot healthier if he lets the insurance company work on this and not snoop around on his own on criminal elements.

Criminal elements are not widely known for their upstanding conduct.
Forumosan avatar
tommy525
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 18175
Joined: 14 Sep 2006, 17:25
Location: calif baby !
607 Recommends(s)
376 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby Jack Burton » 13 Dec 2011, 09:07

Tigerman wrote:
tsukinodeynatsu wrote:Why don't you give the court in Taipei a ring and ask them what they think?


Courts do not answer questions unless the issue is being tried.


waste of time.... it's like asking a Chinese for directions when he doesn't know the answer.
Jack Burton: I don't get this at all. I thought Lo Pan...
Lo Pan: Shut up, Mr. Burton! You are not brought upon this world to get it!
Forumosan avatar
Jack Burton
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6380
Joined: 01 Apr 2003, 11:35
Location: living in bland suburbia
4 Recommends(s)
49 Recognized(s)



Re: Recovering Stolen Property

Postby justreal » 13 Dec 2011, 09:15

Jack Burton wrote:
Tigerman wrote:
tsukinodeynatsu wrote:Why don't you give the court in Taipei a ring and ask them what they think?


Courts do not answer questions unless the issue is being tried.


waste of time.... it's like asking a Chinese for directions when he doesn't know the answer.



ya, talk for a fucking hour to tell you too turn right at the next intersection. And you wonder why everyone wants to learn Engerish.
Living in Taiwan, where the girls are women and most of the guys are too...
justreal
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 273
Joined: 07 Sep 2011, 19:29
Location: Neihu
3 Recommends(s)
3 Recognized(s)



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Proceed to General Legal Matters



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 10 visitors

The question for each man is not what he would do if he had the means, time, influence, and educational advantages, but what he will do with the things he has -- HAMILTON