Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

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Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby pugwash » 16 Apr 2012, 13:34

I am foreign national living in USA. I have primary custody of my child (US court order) however the mother, a Taiwan citizen, took our child back to Taiwan. Our child was born in USA but is also Taiwanese national. I am not on the household registration and mum is now asking me to come and collect our child so the child can return back to the USA to be with dad. I remember reading somewhere that another father who wanted to take his child to the USA was stopped at Taiwanese exit immigration when leaving the country because he was not on the household registration and wasn't allowed to take his child back to the USA - The father in this situation was still happily married to the childs mum as well and mum was even at the airport saying dad was ok to take their child to the USA.

Any help or advice would be appreciated. Could i even be accused of kidnapping if I am supposed to be on the household registration even though I have valid US court order?
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby pgdaddy1 » 17 Apr 2012, 19:29

Whether or not you are on the household registration is not important.

You will need your child's Taiwanese passport (assuming that he/she entered Taiwan on that) and, just to be sure, written permission from your ex-wife.

It sounds like your ex-wife took your child back to Taiwan without your permission ? It wouldn't be the first time that has happened, and I am talking from my own experience. Although in theory you should be able to enforce the US court order in Taiwan, in practice it won't happen.

Without the mother's permission and compliance, your child is not going anywhere; however assuming your ex genuinely wants and agrees for you to take your child back, as you have indicated, then there will be no problems.
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby Isha » 17 Apr 2012, 22:11

Also, keep the child custody papers with you when you travel back. In future be careful and allow your child to travel solely on US passport.
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby pugwash » 24 Apr 2012, 02:34

Thanks all. So exit immigration wont query why our child is traveling on his Taiwanese passport and I am not on the household registration and where is this man (mum tells me I am not even recognized as the father in Taiwan) going with this child he had no relationship with? I just dont trust mum because of past history and knowing she would love to get revenge on me and have me in Taiwanese jail.
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby Isha » 24 Apr 2012, 12:30

pugwash wrote:Thanks all. So exit immigration wont query why our child is traveling on his Taiwanese passport and I am not on the household registration and where is this man (mum tells me I am not even recognized as the father in Taiwan) going with this child he had no relationship with? I just dont trust mum because of past history and knowing she would love to get revenge on me and have me in Taiwanese jail.


Does she want you to take the child back to US? If not, you may get in trouble if you try doing so.
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby pugwash » 24 Apr 2012, 13:43

Well thats the big question, to me there is one thing letting me take our child but when I get to immigration and if she was contacted i could just see her indicating that she hadnt given me permission. Thats the whole reasoning about asking if I had to be on the household registration and i suppose I forgot to add i have to be recognized as the childs father in Taiwan, and how does one go about that? Is a US court order sufficient?

Now the more amazing thing today was the local USA police who worked in the child abduction unit told me to get the childs Taiwanese passport that was being held by the courts here and using that to take the child out of Taiwan. I told them i didnt think that would be to smart given the mother had reported that passport lost and now there was a man, claiming to be the father, removing the child from Taiwan with no recognition he is dad in Taiwan on a lost / stolen passport.
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby Isha » 24 Apr 2012, 15:27

pugwash wrote:Well thats the big question, to me there is one thing letting me take our child but when I get to immigration and if she was contacted i could just see her indicating that she hadnt given me permission. Thats the whole reasoning about asking if I had to be on the household registration and i suppose I forgot to add i have to be recognized as the childs father in Taiwan, and how does one go about that? Is a US court order sufficient?

Now the more amazing thing today was the local USA police who worked in the child abduction unit told me to get the childs Taiwanese passport that was being held by the courts here and using that to take the child out of Taiwan. I told them i didnt think that would be to smart given the mother had reported that passport lost and now there was a man, claiming to be the father, removing the child from Taiwan with no recognition he is dad in Taiwan on a lost / stolen passport.


You need an authorized written permission from your wife. If she has any wrong intentions, she will show off right away, then you can think about the next move like filing abduction case in US. Get it with witness signatures and attested so she can't deny when the time comes. Above all, remain polite to your wife (and her relatives+friends) until this matter is settled.
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby pgdaddy1 » 27 Apr 2012, 18:16

pugwash wrote:Well thats the big question, to me there is one thing letting me take our child but when I get to immigration and if she was contacted i could just see her indicating that she hadnt given me permission. Thats the whole reasoning about asking if I had to be on the household registration and i suppose I forgot to add i have to be recognized as the childs father in Taiwan, and how does one go about that? Is a US court order sufficient?

Now the more amazing thing today was the local USA police who worked in the child abduction unit told me to get the childs Taiwanese passport that was being held by the courts here and using that to take the child out of Taiwan. I told them i didnt think that would be to smart given the mother had reported that passport lost and now there was a man, claiming to be the father, removing the child from Taiwan with no recognition he is dad in Taiwan on a lost / stolen passport.



OP, you are not making yourself clear here. Firstly you said that your ex has invited you to Taiwan to come and collect your child. And here you say that, if asked, she is likely to deny that she has given you permission to remove your child from Taiwan.

Perhaps it went this way: she abducted your child to Taiwan despite a US court order giving you custody; you told her that you wanted your child back and she said "OK, you come here and collect him/her then". This is just a Taiwanese way of saying "no chance". I know because I have heard it before.

If this is the way she is, I would be surprised if she even let you see your child when you return to Taiwan, let alone take them out of the country.

You are not being too clear either about the Taiwanese passport that is being held by the courts in the USA. If they still have it, then she must have obtained another one from the TW Embassy in the USA. Which would be an incredible piece of incompetence on behalf of your justice system because the first thing that the courts should have done is to bind the TW Embassy not to release any travel documents for your child. So what happened there ?

And where did your ex report the Taiwanese passport lost ?

I am sorry, but a lot of things are not making sense here. You have anything else to tell us to make things clearer ?
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby pugwash » 08 Jun 2012, 03:01

pgdaddy1 wrote:Perhaps it went this way: she abducted your child to Taiwan despite a US court order giving you custody; you told her that you wanted your child back and she said "OK, you come here and collect him/her then". This is just a Taiwanese way of saying "no chance". I know because I have heard it before.

Given her behaviour in the past this is what I am expecting.

pgdaddy1 wrote:If this is the way she is, I would be surprised if she even let you see your child when you return to Taiwan, let alone take them out of the country.


Well the reason I think she might let me take the child and then call the police is she could have me put in jail just to get back at me. She ended up on Domestic Violence charges here in the USA for attacking me and spent 3 days in the local jail. Not a very nice experience for anyone. So I wouldnt put it past her to get back at me and send me to experience what she had to. And an easy way to get me out of the picture.

pgdaddy1 wrote:You are not being too clear either about the Taiwanese passport that is being held by the courts in the USA. If they still have it, then she must have obtained another one from the TW Embassy in the USA. Which would be an incredible piece of incompetence on behalf of your justice system because the first thing that the courts should have done is to bind the TW Embassy not to release any travel documents for your child. So what happened there ?


I think you got it correct. The local family court actually does not seem to have its act together. We (my lawyer and myself) have told them many times that mum might abscond with the child, but they never listened. The only thing the court did was to take the Taiwanese passport and keep it at the court under lock and key. They had no interest in talking to the TW Embassy or consulate. Mum would never run off would she?

pgdaddy1 wrote:And where did your ex report the Taiwanese passport lost ?


mum told me she reported the "lost" passport to the TW Consulate in LA and used the original birth certificate that she had (it doesnt list me as dad) to obtain an emergency passport so they could leave the USA.

What I need now is hopefully some evidence to show the local Judge that even though mum says "come get your child" that Taiwan has all these laws that would stop me from taking the child. And also to give this information to the local DA's office so they can better assist me in what actions we need to take so my child can come home.
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Re: Father not on household registration can i take my child back to USA?

Postby tommy525 » 08 Jun 2012, 04:36

Pgdaddy is right . Unless the mom wants you to take your child out of the country and provides his/her taiwan passport to do so, you have zero chance. And I highly doubt that she has such an intention.

US court orders have no effect on such cases in Taiwan as the child is a Taiwanese citizen and is back in his/her "own" country. And Taiwan is not a signatory to any international agreements regarding the such.

You have no chance but to patch up relations and hope for the best As Pgdaddy is doing.

p.s. I doubt the TW consulate in the USA would stop itself from giving her child an emergency passport as his/her passport was "lost". The US courts have no jurisdiction over if or not the TW consulate will issue a passport to one of its citizens.

The US govt could put the child on a "no fly" list. That will stop them from leaving. But it cant stop the TW consulate from issuing another passport. Although even on a no fly list the mom could take the child to Canada or Mexico and then fly back to Taiwan.

A determined mom is hard to stop.
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