Bank lost my money

[Homer J]

Hi, does anybody know how to solve this matter? All the money in my account in a certain Taiwanese bank was withdrawn apparently somewhere in America at an atm. Now I haven't been to the US since 2005, I didn't lose my atm card or my bank book, and nobody lives with me or have my pin code. It happened in April, I realized what happened in May and alerted the bank and the police. So far nothing has been solved. The bank says it's not their fault and they feel they were also the victim, VISA says it's not their fault, the police say they have no cooperation with the US, Foreign Police says they can't help me, the South African Liaison Office says they can't help me. The bank has been dragging their feet , they never called me, they always say they can't speak english, the Police waited one month for the report from the bank. Finally after two months the bank agreed to a sit down with me, and I saw and spoke to the manager for the first time. He said the case is now with Interpol, but who knows? He said I should tell them which amount I would feel comfortable with in getting back, but he could not guarantee even 50%.
Right now it feels I have nowhere to turn, it feels like the bank is dragging their feet in the hope that I will disappear. But there is no way in hell that I can forget about 200 000 NT dollars. The fact is that I put my money in their bank in the hope that it will be safe, and I did not lose my card ever, or my wallet, or my bankbook, or write my pin down. I wish I knew someone in an authority position to put some pressure on them, but I don't. My Taiwanese friend says if we go to court I might lose, but I think it will be worth it. I cannot walk away from this. Does anybody have any advice where to find a good lawyer, or free legal advice, or any organization that can help.

[Adam_CLO]

Sorry to hear about your situation. Some things come to mind that you can inquire about:

1. Some Taiwan banks have international withdrawal access removed by default (at least my bank was set up this way). This means you have to specifically request access to your account from international banks. You can ask if this is the case or not.
2. ATMs normally have a daily withdrawal limit. There's a per transaction limit that is usually $20 000 NT and there's a daily withdrawal limit that is usually around $30 000 NT. You would normally have to request your bank to increase this limit. So if someone withdrew $200 000 NT using an ATM, it must have been done over several days? Was it from the same ATM each time?
3. If the bank feels they are a victim too, it would be in their interest to find out which ATM in the US it was withdrawn from. There are usually cameras at every ATM that can spot perpetrators.

Good luck!

[bigduke6]

Not shitting you. Go to the newspapers, or get a Taiwanese friend to contact them on your behalf. Nothing like a good foreigner story.

There is also a consumer protection agency here. A Taiwanese friend should be able to get the details.

At the end of the day it is the banks responsibility. They have insurance for issues like this. They issued you with the card, and they took your deposits.

[Battery9]

There is no way NT200 000 can be taken from an ATM.

[*monkey*]

Assuming that what you said is 100% true and nobody else knew the PIN or had access to the card, the most likely explanation is that your card was cloned and your pin was recorded. Maybe the cloning happened at a fake ATM. Or it could happen if a card reader is installed over the face of a real ATM.

[tomthorne]

There is no way NT200 000 can be taken from an ATM.

Back in 2004 I had the equivalent of 140,000NTD taken from my bank account. It would have continued had the bank not phoned me to ask about the suspicious transaction patterns. This was in the UK and I got all the money back from the bank without any argument.

It can happen, but seems strange to happen in another country. In my case the bank concluded that a camera was set up in an ATM with some kind of cloning device attached to where I inserted my card. The details were then used to withdraw cash. Ever since then I've developed the habit of putting my hand over the numbers when inputting my PIN.

[Confuzius]

There is no way NT200 000 can be taken from an ATM.

Back in 2004 I had the equivalent of 140,000NTD taken from my bank account. It would have continued had the bank not phoned me to ask about the suspicious transaction patterns. This was in the UK and I got all the money back from the bank without any argument.

It can happen, but seems strange to happen in another country. In my case the bank concluded that a camera was set up in an ATM with some kind of cloning device attached to where I inserted my card. The details were then used to withdraw cash. Ever since then I've developed the habit of putting my hand over the numbers when inputting my PIN.

2 Questions:

1. TT, what bank do you use?

2. OP, same question?

We should have a blacklist of banks here maybe.

[tomthorne]

There is no way NT200 000 can be taken from an ATM.

Back in 2004 I had the equivalent of 140,000NTD taken from my bank account. It would have continued had the bank not phoned me to ask about the suspicious transaction patterns. This was in the UK and I got all the money back from the bank without any argument.

It can happen, but seems strange to happen in another country. In my case the bank concluded that a camera was set up in an ATM with some kind of cloning device attached to where I inserted my card. The details were then used to withdraw cash. Ever since then I've developed the habit of putting my hand over the numbers when inputting my PIN.

2 Questions:

1. TT, what bank do you use?

2. OP, same question?

We should have a blacklist of banks here maybe.

My bank did a damned fine job. They froze my account the moment they realised something was afoot, and then refunded me the full amount. NatWest.

[Mick]

The bank says it's not their fault and they feel they were also the victim

Perhaps if they took a little more care on creating a more secure method of withdrawing cash they wouldn't be the victim. How about a biometric fingerprint scanner on the ATM? Or online account that allows you to actually limit of use to the country of your choosing. How about a confirmation pin code sent to your cell? All could be written in software and once implemented would cost them 0 man hours as it could be all automated. They provide virtually no security and then have the cheek to cry about being the victim.

The media should do a piece on "why are banks so stupid they don't take even the most simple of steps to protect your money?" and then ask the banks what they do to protect their customers money and then if they use a system which all it takes is a fake ATM to gain access to their account, they are using a proven failed system of security. Known for years to be a failed system, one which could be fixed, but either they are too stupid, lazy or just don't care since they pass the loss on to their customers.

[Nuit]

The bank says it's not their fault and they feel they were also the victim.

. As things stand, the bank haven't lost anything. They can't be a victim!
Now if they were to reimburse your losses, then they could peddle that line.

UK banks have, historically, refunded all victims of fraud provided that the customer hadn't acted dishonestly or written down the PIN number. A recent report suggests they are tightening up this approach (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/may/04/banks-pin-card-fraud), but that still seems to leave them light-years ahead of Taiwan banks in terms of customer service.

I've never banked here, and don't know what to suggest. Is there an ROC Banking Code of Conduct?
You might want to ask a local to surf up other documented cases of fraud on Taiwan bank accounts, and see how those matters were dealt with.