Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Let us know how you feel about the website and tell us how it could improve. You can also send e-mail to admin (at) forumosa.com.

Moderators: Tempo Gain, ironlady

Forum rules
Let us know how you feel about the website and tell us how it could improve. You can also send e-mail to admin (at) forumosa.com if you have any problems accessing the forums

Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby TwoTongues » 18 Aug 2010, 00:24

Is the purpose of the Women's Forum to provide a forum for women to discuss stuff only among women, presumably topics that some women might feel uncomfortable talking about with men around - e.g. certain discharges? If so, then don't men also not want to talk about certain things with women around - e.g. Hooters server endowment specifics, both in Taiwan and abroad (nyuk nyuk nyuk), or maybe about their triorchidity? And then gay folks can talk about... um... things that well maybe they don't want to discuss with straights, like a terrific threesome in the California Fitness showers say, or the positives and negatives of painting a wall in two tones?
"Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber." - The Dude
Forumosan avatar
TwoTongues
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: 19 Jul 2009, 11:20
Location: On Vacation from F.com
2 Recognized(s)



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby Chewycorns » 18 Aug 2010, 00:43

TwoTongues wrote:Is the purpose of the Women's Forum to provide a forum for women to discuss stuff only among women, presumably topics that some women might feel uncomfortable talking about with men around - e.g. certain discharges? If so, then don't men also not want to talk about certain things with women around - e.g. Hooters server endowment specifics, both in Taiwan and abroad (nyuk nyuk nyuk), or maybe about their triorchidity? And then gay folks can talk about... um... things that well maybe they don't want to discuss with straights, like a terrific threesome in the California Fitness showers say, or the positives and negatives of painting a wall in two tones?


I completely agree. A lot of positive changes have been made with regards to gender and minority relations in the last 30 years. If anything, I think race and gender relations have significantly improved and women are now over-represented in many professions. Perhaps there was a need for such preferences in the late 60s or early 70s (affirmative action for minorities and women) but the pendulum has definitely switched, and I don't think they need this preference any more. However, some groups are still not granted full human rights (e.g. gays) or accepted by large segments of the population. This is changing (much more acceptance than 20 years ago), but it might still take some time.

However, how do you change attitudes? By education and outreach, right? And you do that by letting it all hang out. :lol: :lol: In the open, in open threads, so people can learn and understand, and be informed. Having secret forums benefits nobody, except maybe hypocritical people that on one hand want equal opportunity, but still want to hold onto the special preferentual status as well that provides them with exclusivity. Can't have it both ways.

I'll hypothesize why there is no Gay Forum. Because there would be colorful threads that would offend certain people. It's ok for moderators to talk about fisting or colorful sex acts, viewtopic.php?f=63&t=70458&p=858725&hilit=fisting#p858725 , but if a regular poster does it, it's off to the cooler. :lol:
Forumosan avatar
Chewycorns
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
 
Posts: 5644
Joined: 22 Jul 2003, 09:38
Location: Back in the Great Wide Open
1 Recognized(s)



Re: The Women's Forum - Should there be private forums on Fo

Postby ironlady » 18 Aug 2010, 04:28

Chewycorns wrote:
ironlady wrote:
Chewycorns wrote: [content not reposted]


What?? He who is Not Afraid to Speak Out in the Rough and Tumble Forums chooses to communicate with me via private message (which, of course, I can't repost here).

Why would someone shrink from open communication in the forums? Such mediocrity! :D If you have something to say about the women's forum, say it right here, where the hundreds...er, dozens....er, the handful of women who post on f.com can see it. Or can't you take the rough and tumble of the Feedback Forum?


I'll post what I wrote to you out in the open. :lol: However, stating that you can't repost it here (as you did above) sounds like what I sent you was an insult rather than a compliment. In my opinion (and I do have a pretty high opinion of you), such maneuverings and distortions are unbecoming of you and representative of pettiness. :D

Well, I think you are smart, professional, and tough enough to handle the rough and tumble of Forumosa with resorting to a private forum.I dislike tribalism of any kind, and I think that forum promotes the separation of women rather than the inclusion.


No, actually I do not regard this as a compliment. I find this to be hypocritical. It's okay for you to tar every woman who might prefer a private forum with the same brush in the open, but well, I'll rush off a PM to ironlady to assure her that SHE isn't mediocre, since she called me on it. It's clearly those OTHER women who use the women's forum who are gutless and can't stand up to the banter in the open forum. Oh yes, of course that's it.

And BTW, the rules clearly state that PMs cannot be reposted by other than the author of same. Otherwise I would simply have dissected what you said in the first place, rather than being respectful of your privacy (kind of a female thing, I guess?)
Terry Waltz, Ph.D
Click here to Finally Learn Mandarin!
Squid for Brains Learning Games -- not your nainai's flash cards!
...although his father beat him every day, wishing him to learn the speech of Ts'e, it will be impossible for him [at least using current methods]...-Mencius
Forumosan avatar
ironlady
Goddess of Fornication & Prostitutes (tōngjiān hé jìnǚ de nǚshén)
 
Posts: 8382
Joined: 13 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: A place where people can't sleep or teach English in McDonald's
87 Recommends(s)
321 Recognized(s)
In Taiwan since: 0- 0-1987



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby ironlady » 18 Aug 2010, 04:39

Chewycorns wrote:
TwoTongues wrote:Is the purpose of the Women's Forum to provide a forum for women to discuss stuff only among women, presumably topics that some women might feel uncomfortable talking about with men around - e.g. certain discharges? If so, then don't men also not want to talk about certain things with women around - e.g. Hooters server endowment specifics, both in Taiwan and abroad (nyuk nyuk nyuk), or maybe about their triorchidity? And then gay folks can talk about... um... things that well maybe they don't want to discuss with straights, like a terrific threesome in the California Fitness showers say, or the positives and negatives of painting a wall in two tones?


I doubt you would find a single woman who would object if you want to set up a private forum for Hooters endowments and triorchidity. Whether or not the site admin feels that would be productive for community-building in Taiwan is another question -- and that is one of the issues considered AFAIK when they think about what to include and how.

the pendulum has definitely switched, and I don't think they need this preference any more.


Hoo boy. There's a statement by a man if I ever heard one. Yep, it's switched for sure. We have equal pay, equal rights everywhere, men are doing half the household chores everywhere. Equal access to education and employment and voting booths and reproductive rights and freedom from forced marriage and all that, worldwide. If you really care about women's rights, why not go do something about it where it would actually benefit someone's life, rather than get your tighty whities in a knot about a forum that doesn't have anything to do with you?

However, how do you change attitudes? By education and outreach, right? And you do that by letting it all hang out. :lol: :lol: In the open, in open threads, so people can learn and understand, and be informed. Having secret forums benefits nobody, except maybe hypocritical people that on one hand want equal opportunity, but still want to hold onto the special preferentual status as well that provides them with exclusivity. Can't have it both ways.


No, you do it by letting it all hang out. We don't. That's the point. Just this morning I had to move gratuitous pictures to Temp from a thread that was asking about Chinese teaching methods. I can think of several recent threads on the Women's Forum that would have been immediately covered in the same sort of disrespectful (to the OP's genuine inquiry), unrelated, gratuitous "aren't we all so in-group guys" sex-and-bathroom-based "humor", had they been similarly posted in "the open".

And if there isn't a Gay Forum, it is most probably only because there has not been enough stated demand for one. I believe if there were enough gay posters on F.com who wanted a safe place to discuss issues, and asked for such a forum, it would probably be forthcoming. It would build community as a whole, by providing a space for part of the community that is often marginalized or shouted down or afraid to speak. And I'll bet not one straight woman would speak out against it, either.
Terry Waltz, Ph.D
Click here to Finally Learn Mandarin!
Squid for Brains Learning Games -- not your nainai's flash cards!
...although his father beat him every day, wishing him to learn the speech of Ts'e, it will be impossible for him [at least using current methods]...-Mencius
Forumosan avatar
ironlady
Goddess of Fornication & Prostitutes (tōngjiān hé jìnǚ de nǚshén)
 
Posts: 8382
Joined: 13 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: A place where people can't sleep or teach English in McDonald's
87 Recommends(s)
321 Recognized(s)
In Taiwan since: 0- 0-1987



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby Gao Bohan » 18 Aug 2010, 05:15

How does creating segregated forums help build a community in Taiwan? :ponder:

Don't get me wrong. I disagree with most of what Chewy wrote. I don't see how participating in a segregated forum reveals mediocrity in any way. And I completely understand why women may prefer to discuss certain topics among themselves. But I do not see how segregation is conducive to community building.

I don't understand the German language forum either. It's not technically locked to non-German speakers, with a German speaking moderator screening out non-German speakers, but in practice it is exclusive. Should we also have a Chinese language forum? Spanish? French? Dutch? Swedish? Danish? Norwegian? Croatian? There are native speakers of all those languages here.

How about racially segregated forums? Religiously segregated forums? Should we have a Jewish forum, with a Jewish moderator that must be persuaded the applicant is sufficiently Jewish before being allowed in? Christian? Muslim? Buddhist?

I thought the point of Forumosa was to create a community of English-speaking (native or non-native) expats and others with an interest in Taiwan. How is this process aided by segregating forums by language, gender, or any other in-group/out-group distinction?
Our most basic common link is that we all inhabit this planet. We all breathe the same air. We all cherish our children's future. And we are all mortal. - John F. Kennedy
Forumosan avatar
Gao Bohan
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6426
Joined: 28 Jun 2004, 03:20
Location: The Glorious American Empire
164 Recommends(s)
301 Recognized(s)



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby ironlady » 18 Aug 2010, 05:59

Because there are substantial differences in how women discuss (look up the linguistic references if you don't believe me). And the community we are building is the foreign community in Taiwan. It helps women who are part of that community to have a place to discuss things where we do not have to constantly wade through (pick as many as apply) sexist comments, belittling humor, bathroom jokes, puerile comments, etc. etc. Having a place where a foreeign woman can speak freely about the issues related to being a foreign woman in Taiwan strengthens the entire foreign community in Taiwan.
Terry Waltz, Ph.D
Click here to Finally Learn Mandarin!
Squid for Brains Learning Games -- not your nainai's flash cards!
...although his father beat him every day, wishing him to learn the speech of Ts'e, it will be impossible for him [at least using current methods]...-Mencius
Forumosan avatar
ironlady
Goddess of Fornication & Prostitutes (tōngjiān hé jìnǚ de nǚshén)
 
Posts: 8382
Joined: 13 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: A place where people can't sleep or teach English in McDonald's
87 Recommends(s)
321 Recognized(s)
In Taiwan since: 0- 0-1987



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby twonavels » 18 Aug 2010, 09:13

Don't judge the women's forum on the banners. I remember a while ago we had a discussion about the crazy banners. Pretty much there is no professional person doing them so sometimes they are quite inappropriate or funny.
The only beef I have with the women's forum is that everybody assumes that because you are a woman, you probably belong to it. Now that's just wrong!
Forumosan avatar
twonavels
Martyr's Shrine Guard (zhōngliècí wèibīng)
Martyr's Shrine Guard (zhōngliècí wèibīng)
 
Posts: 1725
Joined: 27 Sep 2002, 18:41
5 Recommends(s)
3 Recognized(s)



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby TwoTongues » 18 Aug 2010, 09:29

ironlady wrote:Because there are substantial differences in how women discuss (look up the linguistic references if you don't believe me). And the community we are building is the foreign community in Taiwan. It helps women who are part of that community to have a place to discuss things where we do not have to constantly wade through (pick as many as apply) sexist comments, belittling humor, bathroom jokes, puerile comments, etc. etc. Having a place where a foreeign woman can speak freely about the issues related to being a foreign woman in Taiwan strengthens the entire foreign community in Taiwan.

I agree that there are some topics women would like to discuss amongst themselves without the peering in of men. And thanks for moving Michelle Zen's picture to temp, I would disagree that it's totally OT, as it was meant to demonstrate a point in a fun way, but certainly if some are offended then whatever.

But why are men any different? Do you not see negative comments about men floating around? Who the hell cares if there are bathroom jokes and Farrelly Brothers humor in the forums? This is a country where the average male expat has significantly more opportunities for relationships with local females than do average female expats, yet we can not always discuss them openly and in the way we like to without getting complaints of sexism and juvenility (Ok I made up the word).

You say women have "different ways of discussing things"; that very statement implies that men have a different way of discussing things too, and your implication is that men are generally more open about what you consider to be childish ("puerile") sex topics and bathroom jokes - maybe that's just how some of us express ourselves, deal with insecurities, and find humor in this sometimes miserable world. Especially The Chief.

So maybe Men should have a forum only for men in which we can discuss those topics freely. As you said earlier, if requested, men should have a men's only forum, as should gays and other sexual orientations and cultural groups who have a "different way of discussing things".

I hereby cast my vote for a men-only forum in which we are free to be as puerile as we want without getting temp'd or banned. OK so no porn or explicit nudity, and no threats of violence or ignorant boxcutter jokes, but the rest is a free for all.
"Fortunately, I'm adhering to a pretty strict, uh, drug, uh, regimen to keep my mind, you know, uh, limber." - The Dude
Forumosan avatar
TwoTongues
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
Mandarin Marvel (Guóyǔ gāoshǒu)
 
Posts: 1846
Joined: 19 Jul 2009, 11:20
Location: On Vacation from F.com
2 Recognized(s)



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby ironlady » 18 Aug 2010, 09:46

TwoTongues wrote: And thanks for moving Michelle Zen's picture to temp, I would disagree that it's totally OT, as it was meant to demonstrate a point in a fun way, but certainly if some are offended then whatever.


Gosh, I was not aware that Michelle Zen had any opinions about whether the use of Pinyin with beginning students of Chinese led to foreign accent. Or that the looks of the teacher in question had anything to do with the use of Pinyin.

But why are men any different? Do you not see negative comments about men floating around? Who the hell cares if there are bathroom jokes and Farrelly Brothers humor in the forums? This is a country where the average male expat has significantly more opportunities for relationships with local females than do average female expats, yet we can not always discuss them openly and in the way we like to without getting complaints of sexism and juvenility (Ok I made up the word).


You can discuss whatever you like, including "juvenile" topics, sex, etc. The objection the ladies have is that when a woman tries to discuss a topic in the open forums, the guys pile on with the puerile jokes that are unrelated to the question. We don't care if you discuss all the details of your latest conquest. But it would be nice (but seemingly impossible, without a separate forum) for a woman to be able to raise a question and get an answer, rather than a bunch of unrelated BS, in a handful of cases. And these are the topics that end up in the women's forum, and are handled quite differently to the way they would have ended up being handled "in the open".

So maybe Men should have a forum only for men in which we can discuss those topics freely. As you said earlier, if requested, men should have a men's only forum, as should gays and other sexual orientations and cultural groups who have a "different way of discussing things".

I hereby cast my vote for a men-only forum in which we are free to be as puerile as we want without getting temp'd or banned. OK so no porn or explicit nudity, and no threats of violence or ignorant boxcutter jokes, but the rest is a free for all.


Doesn't bother me if the men want their own forum, although it has been previously pointed out on many occasions that they already do, in essence. It's called Forumosa, given the preponderance of male posters. But if y'all want to lobby for The Puerile Forum and get a qualified gatekeeper to judge if prospective members are childish enough -- be my guest! :lol:

(Is puerility.com taken? Business opp!) :D
Terry Waltz, Ph.D
Click here to Finally Learn Mandarin!
Squid for Brains Learning Games -- not your nainai's flash cards!
...although his father beat him every day, wishing him to learn the speech of Ts'e, it will be impossible for him [at least using current methods]...-Mencius
Forumosan avatar
ironlady
Goddess of Fornication & Prostitutes (tōngjiān hé jìnǚ de nǚshén)
 
Posts: 8382
Joined: 13 Nov 2001, 17:01
Location: A place where people can't sleep or teach English in McDonald's
87 Recommends(s)
321 Recognized(s)
In Taiwan since: 0- 0-1987



Re: Women's Forum - Are private forums necessary?

Postby Jaboney » 18 Aug 2010, 09:56

TwoTongues wrote:So maybe Men should have a forum only for men in which we can discuss those topics freely. As you said earlier, if requested, men should have a men's only forum, as should gays and other sexual orientations and cultural groups who have a "different way of discussing things".

I hereby cast my vote for a men-only forum in which we are free to be as puerile as we want without getting temp'd or banned. OK so no porn or explicit nudity, and no threats of violence or ignorant boxcutter jokes, but the rest is a free for all.

I would be all for that, if it were opt-in (so thread titles wouldn't appear on screen without opting in), and if it would eliminate that content from the rest of the forum.

The http://www.puerile.com/ domain is for sale.
Forumosan avatar
Jaboney
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 10735
Joined: 09 Jun 2005, 02:02
Location: Broadcasting from Neihu
22 Recommends(s)
56 Recognized(s)



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Proceed to Feedback



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 3 visitors

The future has a way of arriving unannounced -- GEORGE F WILL