Grammar: There is There are

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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby PigBloodCake » 15 May 2012, 20:56

有一千塊在桌上.

Screw the is/are verbiage. :discodance:
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby superking » 15 May 2012, 21:27

I would say, There is a 1000 dollars on the table. In that way I would be talking about the currency of dollars. However, I would say, There are 1000 dollar bills on the table, to talk about the individual things.

Is/Are is/are a very tricky thing to teach.
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby PigBloodCake » 15 May 2012, 22:23

superking wrote:I would say, There is a 1000 dollars on the table. In that way I would be talking about the currency of dollars. However, I would say, There are 1000 dollar bills on the table, to talk about the individual things.

Is/Are is/are a very tricky thing to teach.


If we're talking NT, your first sentence would actually be: There is a thousand dollar bill on the table.

Or, in the old days, we would say: There is the old generalissimo's cockface bill on the table :thumbsup:
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby Tempo Gain » 15 May 2012, 22:30

I'm getting the feeling there are US/Commonwealth differences at work here, as isn't unusual with mass noun type issues. "There are a thousand dollars" sounds right to me.
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby superking » 15 May 2012, 23:20

Tempo Gain wrote:I'm getting the feeling there are US/Commonwealth differences at work here, as isn't unusual with mass noun type issues. "There are a thousand dollars" sounds right to me.



Yip.

The next couple eliminated is...
The next couple eliminated are...

BOTH of those are acceptable, depending upon which sod of earth you happen to live upon.

The West Midlands police force are a bunch of tossers.
The West Midlands police force is a bunch of tossers.

These two sentences are both correct and true.

Also, think about the contraction...

1)There're are bunch on notes on the table.
2)There's a bunch of notes on the table.
1)There're are 1000nt on the table.
2)There's 1000nt on the table.

Contraction 2 sounds better to mine ears.


Just teach your students to stop asking such questions. :D Countable vs uncountable stops at sheep, chocolate and stuff in the house. Pre-int level people really don't need to fuss quite so much.
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby Confuzius » 15 May 2012, 23:31

Tiger Mountaineer wrote::eh:
A thousand dollars is a SUM of money... and sums of money are singular. Therefore you should say "There is a thousand dollars on the table.", "There is fifty dollars in my wallet.", "A hundred dollars is all the money I have left.", etc. Ex Animo is right. If you say "There are a thousand dollars on the table." it's like saying "There are a thousand one-dollar bills on the table." There's my :2cents:


:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby superking » 15 May 2012, 23:42

Confuzius wrote:
Tiger Mountaineer wrote::eh:
A thousand dollars is a SUM of money... and sums of money are singular. Therefore you should say "There is a thousand dollars on the table.", "There is fifty dollars in my wallet.", "A hundred dollars is all the money I have left.", etc. Ex Animo is right. If you say "There are a thousand dollars on the table." it's like saying "There are a thousand one-dollar bills on the table." There's my :2cents:


:bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

By jove I think he's got it!


Context:

a: Do you have the money I asked for?
b: Yes, there are 1000 dollars on the table.
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby housecat » 16 May 2012, 06:50

I almost made exactly the same post as Tiger until I started to think about why I might say it that way.

Indiana's "dummy" noun throws off the way we hear/say the plurality/singularity of the verb.

Nonetheless, "dollars" is plural. Dollars are. However, our singular article, "a," would indicate a singular noun, or a singular AMOUNT: thousand. So if we had, "A thousand dollars is on the table," this would be correct.

But what the OP actually has is, "There _____ a thousand dollars on the table." The "dummy noun," has taken the position of subject in this sentence.

Can anyone tell me how "there" can be seen to be either singular or plural?

We can't say, "There are THE thousand dollars on the table." We can't use "an," but we must have the noun marking article, so it must be '"a." But this isn't realy a reliable indicator of number, as we must use it by default because of our messed up syntax.

Dollars are. Thousand is. Both are correct as the sentence is written--which indicates that the sentence isn't correctly written.
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby Ducked » 16 May 2012, 07:41

My Taiwanese colleages keep coming up with this kind of question. You people should know better.

The correct answer is:

It DOES NOT MATTER.

Or, more dismissively

WHO CARES?
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Re: Grammar: There is There are

Postby Ex Animo » 16 May 2012, 07:43

As an experienced editor of American English, I can tell you that this idea of 'that sounds right' as being the way to decide correct usage is incredibly flawed. Why guess when you have so many resources available?

From http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp

Rule 13

Use a singular verb with sums of money or periods of time.

Examples:
Ten dollars is a high price to pay.
Five years is the maximum sentence for that offense.


http://www.sparknotes.com/testprep/books/act/chapter5section2.rhtml

“Dollars” is an exceptional case—it’s singular when you’re talking about an amount of money (“ninety dollars is a big chunk of change”) but plural when you’re discussing a particular group of bills (“the dollars in my pocket are green”).


From the main style resource for American English, The Chicago Manual of Style:

9.21 Words versus monetary symbols and numerals
Isolated references to amounts of money are spelled out for whole numbers of one hundred or less, in accordance with the general principle presented in 9.2. See also 9.3.

seventy-five cents = 75¢
fifteen dollars = $15
seventy-five pounds = £75
Whole amounts expressed numerically should include zeros and a decimal point only when they appear in the same context with fractional amounts (see also 9.19). Note the singular verb in the second example.

Children can ride for seventy-five cents.
The eighty-three dollars was quickly spent.
The instructor charged €125 per lesson.
Prices ranged from $0.95 up to $10.00.
For larger amounts, see 9.25


And from the CMoS Web site Q&A:

Usage

Q. Hello, CMOS Gurus—I cannot seem to locate the rule that proves (or disproves, I guess) the following to be correct: More than 28 million pounds of scrap is reclaimed every year. I thought that units of measurement or money took a singular verb, not plural (such as, three million dollars is a lot, or five miles is a long way). Are there other quantities that this applies to (such as years)? Or am I wrong entirely and should all three of my examples above take a plural verb? —A stumped copyeditor

A. For measures or money or any other quantities, when the items form a whole that isn’t meant to be divided, use a singular verb, as you have. When items are meant to be individual and countable, use a plural verb: Five hundred million Twinkies are produced each year. Since your scrap isn’t being reclaimed one pound at a time, “is” is the right choice.


http://www.chicagomanualofstyle.org/CMS_FAQ/Usage/Usage79.html
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