Click here to go to our new forums at http://tw.forumosa.com
If you are a Forumosan Regular, when you log in for the FIRST TIME, you must RESET your password by using the Password Recovery system.

Usernames on the new forums must not contain any SPACES and must end with LETTER or a NUMBER; if yours does, you will be prompted to change your Username
Contact us at admin(at)forumosa(dot)com or @forumosa on Twitter or on our Facebook Page if you have any questions or problems logging back in

English teachers will soon need gov't licenses in Taibei...

Moderator: Tempo Gain

Postby Bassman » 16 Dec 2002, 13:47

Sorry, nothing personal against you Alleycat.
It's just that I recently discovered another school that has 8 S.A teachers. 5 of them could barely hold a conversation in English - Another S.A teacher translated from Afrikaans so other people could understand what they were saying. In meetings they speak Afrikaans, and when the boss says that he can't understand, they say "Oh, we'll speak slower for you" , and then they changed to simple English.

I am not saying that it is all S. Africans, as Alleycat is obviously a class act and a top notch English spreaker, but there are some, usually hiding away in small towns. In these small towns they make a tiny salary and are happy, but is this acceptable?????

If I were a parent of one of the kids at the English school where they teach I would not be happy. Actually they didn't even pass the required test for their school, but the boss was greedy and needed a foreign face.
User avatar
Bassman
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
 
Posts: 3699
Joined: 22 Aug 2002, 15:44
Location: New Zealand



Postby Bassman » 16 Dec 2002, 13:51

I had better add that many South Africans are excellent English teachers and I am glad to count some of them as friends, but even my S.A friends admit that there are many out there spoiling it for the rest of them.

I would never speak like this to Taiwanese, I wouldn't want to ruin the rep. of any good teachers trying to find work here, but, this forum is mostly foreigners - correct me if I am wrong.
User avatar
Bassman
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
 
Posts: 3699
Joined: 22 Aug 2002, 15:44
Location: New Zealand



Postby daltongang » 16 Dec 2002, 14:40

she is incorrect comparing foreign teachers to taiwanese as she does. taiwanese do not need any licence to teach english in a buxiban. if she is referring to the public school system, then her idea is not a bad one, otherwise it is ridiculous.
daltongang
Eldest Grandchild (zhǎngsūn)
Eldest Grandchild (zhǎngsūn)
 
Posts: 1194
Joined: 05 Oct 2002, 23:35
Location: Swamp



Postby littleiron » 16 Dec 2002, 15:09

Uh-oh.. a voice of dissent...

Just a question to throw out.. I don't know enough about the situation either way to have a strong opinion yet.
But wouldn't some sort of qualification system (certainly not a test, but passing a course of some sort) raise the standards of English teaching? Not because the teachers would learn much from the course, but because it would seriously weed out all the 'teachers' that are here to solely make money or because they have nowhere else to go (ie the teachers that don't really care about teaching)? It would shrink the pool of available teachers, which would in turn give higher pay to those semi-qualified (and attract more "real" teachers).

I can imagine it now.... "What? I want to make a lot of money without putting in much effort, and you want me to take a 2 month course and pretend I know what I'm doing first?? But... I'm a foreigner!"

Anyways.. maybe someone who witnessed this same process in Japan could shed some light if it helped things there...

(Flame retardent suit on....)
littleiron
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Chair-throwing Legislator (rēng yǐzi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 371
Joined: 18 Oct 2001, 16:01
Location: Taipei



Postby Omniloquacious » 16 Dec 2002, 15:18

Alleycat wrote:The TT calls her a freshman, and too right.

This is her little project, is it?

Well, we'll see if she can convince other councillors, councillors who have many, many bushiban-owning constituents--owners who are not going to be happy about additional redtape, and not to mention the higher salaries they will need to pay to attract teachers from a much-reduced labor pool, etc

wwwwaaaaahhhahahaahahaaha

what a novice!


Some of those councillors are probably also buxiban owners THEMSELVES, doing very nicely from keeping things exactly the way they are now.

Could it possibly be that, before this fresh-faced young lass became a buxiban boss, she put in several years as a teaching assistant or teacher, being paid much less than her foreign colleagues and harbouring an ever deepening resentment about it? Has anyone worked for her and noticed any particular hostility toward the foreign teachers in her school? Oh, and wouldn't it be funny if it turned out that she'd employed grossly under-qualified people as teachers in her own school!
User avatar
Omniloquacious
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
Retired President (tuì xiū de zǒng tǒng)
 
Posts: 5691
Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 14:15
Location: The 鳥不生蛋狗不拉屎 wasteland of Linkou



Postby daltongang » 16 Dec 2002, 15:29

think of what buxibans are called in chinese, "short-term" buxibans. for someone to go through inevitably mindless and useless bureaucratic "training" to take a short-term job in a private buxiban, which only provide a convenient choice for people looking to practice a language or other subjects, outside of the official school system, would accomplish nothing and probably hurt the system overall. in addition, it would be unfair unless chinese teachers had to undergo the same training.

i kind of assume she was talking about teachers in public schools, and this i can agree with as the public school system has a responsibility to ensure a minimum standard. I wouldn't be surprised if she wasn't though, after all she is a city councilwoman.
daltongang
Eldest Grandchild (zhǎngsūn)
Eldest Grandchild (zhǎngsūn)
 
Posts: 1194
Joined: 05 Oct 2002, 23:35
Location: Swamp



Re: Further exodus?

Postby Comrade Stalin » 16 Dec 2002, 15:37

almas john wrote:Boss Hogg,

You said "further exodus" of teachers. I wasn't aware that the number of teachers had declined; do you have info on this? I live in Jiayi and the number of foreigners has increased over the last five years. Many small cities that were once without big-noses now have several (usually South Africans).


The Boss was quoting me and many of my longtime/experienced teacher friends HAVE left.......and they're now teaching in China. The pay and benefits are getting better and there's less paperwork for visas.
"I got very well acquainted with Joe Stalin, and I like old Joe! He is a decent fellow." - Harry Truman after the Potsdam Conference
Comrade Stalin
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
Thinking of Staging a Coup (xiǎng yào gǎo zhèng biàn)
 
Posts: 6221
Joined: 06 Jun 2002, 16:01
Location: Partying with 72 former virgins....



Postby chessman71 » 16 Dec 2002, 15:45

In Japan they started requiring similar certifications back in the 80's I think. But it led to a downward spiral with people competing with different qualifications. When I was there in '98-'99 I heard that a lot of places required a MA in TEFOL or similar qualifications in order to get a working visa. And all hiring is done outside the country. Of course, few people had an MA so there were few English teachers. As a result, the Japanese level of English greatly deteriorated.

Interesting side note, I was interested in serious language study when I was there because I was thinking of eventually working as a translator. i managed to track down a foreigner who had been in Tokyo for 15+ years and was doing Japanese-English translation. She said that without those types of English teaching jobs, acquiring the necessary Japanese skills to eventually translate was impossible. Teaching English gave her the time and money to study and master Japanese which would be practically impossible now. So it eventually hurt the quality of translations too.
chessman71
 
{ AUTHOR_TOPIC }



Re: Further exodus?

Postby Bassman » 16 Dec 2002, 15:56

blueface666 wrote:
almas john wrote:Boss Hogg,

You said "further exodus" of teachers. I wasn't aware that the number of teachers had declined; do you have info on this? I live in Jiayi and the number of foreigners has increased over the last five years. Many small cities that were once without big-noses now have several (usually South Africans).


The Boss was quoting me and many of my longtime/experienced teacher friends HAVE left.......and they're now teaching in China. The pay and benefits are getting better and there's less paperwork for visas.


Really??? Give me some more info. PM me if you want
User avatar
Bassman
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
Buxiban Laoban (bǔxíbān lǎobǎn)
 
Posts: 3699
Joined: 22 Aug 2002, 15:44
Location: New Zealand



Postby Sir Donald Bradman » 16 Dec 2002, 16:17

It would shrink the pool of available teachers, which would in turn give higher pay to those semi-qualified (and attract more "real" teachers).


It would shrink the pool of available legal teachers, which would in turn raise the demand for illegal teachers.

BTW This is just an idea of newly-elected council, who (as Alleycat says) probably doesn't have much chance in getting it through. This thread hardly deserves it's alarmist title.

brian
Sir Donald Bradman
Sidewalk Geomancer (lù biān suàn mìng tān)
Sidewalk Geomancer (lù biān suàn mìng tān)
 
Posts: 1016
Joined: 23 Jul 2002, 16:01
Location: In retirement



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
PreviousNext




Return to Teaching English in Taiwan



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 3 guests