Taiwanese workers rights?

Forum rules
While the moderators are happy to help point people in the right direction for legal assistance and to attempt to keep these forums civil and tidy, please bear in mind that an Internet forum is not the place for providing or receiving legal advice or for the creation of any attorney-client privileges or obligations. Also keep in mind that Forumosa and the moderators cannot conduct comprehensive reviews of all laws or legal concepts referenced or discussed within these forums – laws and regulations are updated and amended, interpretations do change, and sometimes the legal landscape can change very fast. Forumosa provides these legal forums for general informational purposes only. By using these legal forums, you agree that the information does not constitute legal or other professional advice and no attorney-client or other relationship is created between you and any other posters on these forums. DO NOT CONSIDER THE FORUMS TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR OBTAINING LEGAL ADVICE FROM A QUALIFIED LICENSED ATTORNEY.

Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby Lo Bo To » 11 Oct 2011, 19:43

My Taiwanese friend works in the public relations field. She is a mid-level manager for one of the larger public relations firms here in Taiwan.

Rarely is there a day that she works less than 12 hours. She gets paid quite poorly for the work she does. Although she has been responsible for landing several multi-million dollar deals she doesn't get any bonuses. We have spoken about it many times and she is actually going to be quitting her job in a few weeks.

It seems as if the working environment in particular for this field of work tends to demand insane hours for little pay. But the question I guess I have is, What rights do Taiwanese workers have as far a labor laws go?

Are there similar laws to protect workers here as there are in Canada or the US? If there are what kind of enforcement can be expected?
Forumosan avatar
Lo Bo To
Bird Walker (liù niǎo de rén)
 
Posts: 1410
ORIGINAL POSTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2005, 16:44
Location: Taipei
1 Recommends(s)
2 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby BigNoodle » 12 Oct 2011, 10:14

there are laws, but they are almost never enforced. and unions have no power at all. actually taiwanese people don't really know what unions are. and they never complain because they are afraid to get fired.

normal working time is 8 hours/day - 40 hours/week. with 1 hour rest every 5 hours.
extra hours are supposed to be paid more, like 1.2 to 1.5 times the basic rate, depending on the time. and there is a limited amount of extra hours you can work.

so companies just handle like they want.
my ex company used to pay attention to the 1 hour rest every 5 hours, because they could force people to stay one hour more when they arrived late in the morning (cannot work 6 hours in the afternoon to compensate, have to work 5 + rest 1 + work 1 = 7hours)
but about extra time : if you worked until after 22.00 (basic take off time was 18.00) you would get... 60NT$. In cash. (for the 4 hours, not per hour). and nothing for people coming on weekends.

so if you have the time and money to check with lawyers and unions, do it. otherwise, find a better company.

(that's what all my ex co workers -and me- did, and they had to close down a full R&D department of 25 people because of their shit rules)
Forumosan avatar
BigNoodle
Breakfast Store Laoban (zǎocān diàn lǎobǎn)
Breakfast Store Laoban (zǎocān diàn lǎobǎn)
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 11:30
Location: Guting
2 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby TheLostSwede » 12 Oct 2011, 12:31

Workers rights? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
Ok, so they don't beat you if you're late, but you usually get fined and staff in general is treated at something that can be disposed of when no longer needed.
There's no such things as workers rights, it's more of a "we're such a nice company so we offer you the following and if you don't like it, then get lost" or something close to that anyhow...
Forumosan avatar
TheLostSwede
Generalissimo (dàyuánshuài)
Generalissimo (dàyuánshuài)
 
Posts: 4390
Joined: 17 Jun 2006, 13:45
Location: Xindian mountains
15 Recommends(s)
13 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby BigNoodle » 12 Oct 2011, 15:12

in said previous company, my coworkers did not even have such things as a work contract. when asked about this "if the company needs you, you go to work, when they don't , the lay you off. same for yourself, you just leave whenever you want"

so having rights without a work contract is always difficult...
Forumosan avatar
BigNoodle
Breakfast Store Laoban (zǎocān diàn lǎobǎn)
Breakfast Store Laoban (zǎocān diàn lǎobǎn)
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 05 Jan 2010, 11:30
Location: Guting
2 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby Lo Bo To » 12 Oct 2011, 20:14

The thing I've never really understood is how can a manager expect his/her workers to perform in any way to the best of their abilities when they are slave driven with little incentive to do well? I guess that's why things in general aren't quite what they are back home.
Forumosan avatar
Lo Bo To
Bird Walker (liù niǎo de rén)
 
Posts: 1410
ORIGINAL POSTER
Joined: 31 Aug 2005, 16:44
Location: Taipei
1 Recommends(s)
2 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby TheLostSwede » 12 Oct 2011, 22:20

You're missing the point, no-one here is expecting anything, you're only supposed to do what you're told to do, nothing more, nothing less.
This isn't a country where creativeness and productivity are features that are looked at when someone is hired in general, but rather if the person can do one single task and do it repeatedly without complaining and questioning the management. The system is crazy and it blows big times and this is why I no longer work for local companies.
Forumosan avatar
TheLostSwede
Generalissimo (dàyuánshuài)
Generalissimo (dàyuánshuài)
 
Posts: 4390
Joined: 17 Jun 2006, 13:45
Location: Xindian mountains
15 Recommends(s)
13 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby justreal » 12 Oct 2011, 22:46

several multi-million dollar deals with no bonus? did she at least get a thank you? of course she agreed to do the work under the terms of the employer. if no incentives were offered, none should be expected. if she has a strong history of bringing these type deals to the table. she should consider re negotiating her terms of employment with the current employer. if that does not work, take her customers to the competition.
workers rights are pretty much what the employer can get away with until the employee squeals. in a culture where don't ask, don't complain rules and no employee squeals, what do you think is going to happen.
Living in Taiwan, where the girls are women and most of the guys are too...
justreal
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
Shoe-wielding Legislator (huīwǔ xiézi de lìfǎ wěiyuán)
 
Posts: 274
Joined: 07 Sep 2011, 19:29
Location: Neihu
3 Recommends(s)
3 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby whitetiger » 12 Oct 2011, 23:24

Of course there are rights for workers. The enforcement of said rights is lacking in large part due to the employees' lack of courage to stand up for themselves. I've seen the other extreme in Canada, where it is nearly impossible to fire someone, due to the unions. I also disagree with this. If we could find some middle ground, we'd be set. Bosses are often not qualified to manage people, or they simply don't care. An employee that gets rest, appreciation and a personal life will produce much more than these zombies that mope around in fear. Furthermore, it would be quite easily to attain the same production in an 8 hour day that they do in 10 or 12 hours because they often just hang around being inefficient, playing on fb, etc. for much of the day. Tell your friend to learn the laws, and also the word 'no'. If a bunch of expats can learn them, surely she can acquire them easily. Nothing with change until she is ready to take action when her rights are violated. Her boss may fire her, but he may not and she will have recourse if he does.
"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."
Albert Einstein
Forumosan avatar
whitetiger
Night Market Cop (yè shì tiáo zi)
Night Market Cop (yè shì tiáo zi)
 
Posts: 860
Joined: 23 Sep 2005, 15:44
Location: Taichung
1 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby Dr Spock » 10 Nov 2011, 01:13

TheLostSwede wrote:Workers rights? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: Ok, so they don't beat you if you're late, but you usually get fined and staff in general is treated at something that can be disposed of when no longer needed. There's no such things as workers rights, it's more of a "we're such a nice company so we offer you the following and if you don't like it, then get lost" or something close to that anyhow...


This sort of completely misleading and unfounded post should be deleted. There are government agencies which assist people with their rights here. However as nobody can accurately say what contract the persons being discussed had how an any of you make any informed judgements. Many people in Taiwan are starting to use government agencies to help with their employment issues. There is no need for some mis informed such as thelostweed person to be so deliberately misleading.
Dying is something you have no control over. Why waste your life being afraid of it?
Forumosan avatar
Dr Spock
Grasshopper (cǎo měng)
 
Posts: 85
Joined: 17 Oct 2011, 15:04
1 Recognized(s)

6000

Re: Taiwanese workers rights?

Postby TheLostSwede » 10 Nov 2011, 03:09

Dr Spock wrote:
TheLostSwede wrote:Workers rights? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: Ok, so they don't beat you if you're late, but you usually get fined and staff in general is treated at something that can be disposed of when no longer needed. There's no such things as workers rights, it's more of a "we're such a nice company so we offer you the following and if you don't like it, then get lost" or something close to that anyhow...


This sort of completely misleading and unfounded post should be deleted. There are government agencies which assist people with their rights here. However as nobody can accurately say what contract the persons being discussed had how an any of you make any informed judgements. Many people in Taiwan are starting to use government agencies to help with their employment issues. There is no need for some mis informed such as thelostweed person to be so deliberately misleading.


Misleading? It's the truth and it happened at a company I worked for here for a few months until I realised my mistake. If you were even a second late, you got fined NT$200 per half an hour and your manager had to sign off on you being late. And yes, the government has rules, rules that generally favour the companies. If a company want to get rid of you here, they don't make you redundant, as it's too expensive, instead they place you in a different position within the company where you end up doing tasks that will melt your brain or make you leave. Try parental leave, no-one dares to take six months off when they have a child here, as everyone knows that their job won't be there when they return, as it's been given to someone else and you're now doing a job that pays half of what you used to get.
You need a reality check my friend, in as much as there are worker rights, most of them don't apply as people don't dare to force issues here as they're afraid to lose their jobs. Everyone in Taiwan is replaceable when it comes to work, as businesses here don't value their employees, they're just there to do what they're paid to do and nothing else.
Also, you might want to look up what sarcasm means in a dictionary, as in as much as it's close to the truth, my initial statement was a sarcastic reaction to the OP's post, but I guess that was something you failed to notice.
Forumosan avatar
TheLostSwede
Generalissimo (dàyuánshuài)
Generalissimo (dàyuánshuài)
 
Posts: 4390
Joined: 17 Jun 2006, 13:45
Location: Xindian mountains
15 Recommends(s)
13 Recognized(s)

6000

Next




 
 
 x

Return to Human Rights



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 1 visitor

Time is painted with a lock before, and bald behind, signifying thereby that we must take time by the forelock; for, when it is once past, there is no recalling it -- JONATHAN SWIFT