I am being DEPORTED!!! Can ANYONE help me???!

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Postby cipos » 22 Dec 2005, 06:23

It is true that more raids are being conducted. My friend which is a police officer said that they are more aggressive in going after these schools, but he said that before they go, they need to have someone report it. This means that someone had to have reported the school to get it raided.

I'm sure that there are 'spot raids', but in most cases, it has been reported to the police. So, when the police come, they are ready for any foreigner trying to sneak out or walk away. It would be difficult especially for a new teacher who didn't know the rules or the area very well.
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Postby Honour » 22 Dec 2005, 09:55

Well I'm definately sorry to hear of Phillipe's plight in Taiwan. I am also a little surprised at some of the responses. I don't understand how other foreigners (at least I think are foreigners) could be so judgemental and harsh on someone that basically just arrived. :noway: Are they trying to say that they have full access to the laws and can exercise their every right on the spot? Without a fight? That type of bullsh*t is meant to be ignored. The poster I'm speaking of, sounds like they just arrived. :roll:

Phillipe, have you considered talking to your local rep at home? Tell them what's happening to foreigners in Taiwan. Maybe see how they repond? Give it a try, it can't make things any worse, and it might stop those nightmares.

Sorry it had to go down like that :(
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Postby Jive Turkey » 22 Dec 2005, 15:25

Honour wrote: Are they trying to say that they have full access to the laws and can exercise their every right on the spot?

I don't think that anybody here expects the guy to have been knowledgeable about the law. His failing was in the area of common sense. He has himself said that it was stupid of him to sign a false statement.
Phillipe, have you considered talking to your local rep at home? Tell them what's happening to foreigners in Taiwan. Maybe see how they repond?

I imagine that most MPs or reps would respond with: "You signed a false statement and you weren't even threatened or coerced into doing so? Sorry, I don't see how I can help you." If he had actually been coerced into signing, this would be a different story. Let's think about this for a minute. Even in western countries where there is much better protection for civil rights, there are plenty of situations where the police slyly try to get a confession out of someone. It's not like this is unique to Taiwan. I think it's a simple rule: don't sign something if it isn't correct or if you don't understand it. What happened to the OP sucks, but I think it is safe to say that his shadow isn't going to fall on Taiwan for another five years.
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Postby Honour » 22 Dec 2005, 16:48

Your right, it was a mistake, and he admits it. I just don't think he deserves the double bonk on the head he's been getting. Especially from posters that seem to know how things can go down here, :idunno: that all.

We also have duress that can be used as a defense in some cases. There is no reason that he can't turn this negative into a positive by contributing to the equal rights struggle in Taiwan. Who knows? Maybe someone important would take notice and start a small flame that side that leads to something big.

:) You'll never know what can happen, if you don't try.
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Postby Eric W. Lier » 22 Dec 2005, 20:52

Smile You'll never know what can happen, if you don't try.

Agreed, the problem is that this person was deported long before most of us even knew about the case, or could get things moving.
Taiwan's laws and procedures are designed to prohibit residents that are being deported from being able to defend themselves before the extra judicial sentencing is carried out.
In this case 2 weeks to get out or go to jail.
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Postby brian » 23 Dec 2005, 07:48

Honour wrote: I don't understand how other foreigners (at least I think are foreigners) could be so judgemental and harsh on someone that basically just arrived.


I don't see anybody who is being judgemental of the fact that he had just arrived. What happened to him could easily happen to someone who had been living in Taiwan for years. I have been here for years and I have always paid attention to the laws and regulations but despite this even I was unaware of what seems to be a recent change in procedures that now makes it illegal to work prior to receiving your work permit. No one expects everyone to know everything, but the more that we each know and the more that we share this knowledge, the better off that we will be as a group.

Honour wrote: Are they trying to say that they have full access to the laws and can exercise their every right on the spot? Without a fight?


I am not sure which poster you are referring to but in my case I believe that a knowledge of the legislation can be a good friend to have. I certainly don't see that a lack of knowledge of the legislation can be helpful and therefore discussion of the relevant legislation is very pertinent.

Does it help people who have already been deported? Of course not. That is not the aim. The aim is to let foreign teachers faced with similar circumstances in the future.

Can your rights be exercised on the spot? Yes of course, but you have to judge for yourself how you exercise these rights. I don't agree with the suggestion that you should refuse to sign anything! I believe that this is disrespectful of the authorities and is not likely to make things any easier for you. Your embassy is unlikely to be able to, nor want to, help you as you were afterall working illegally. Therefore my suggestion is that you write your own statement in English on the form that they give you stating something along the lines of 'I am being asked to sign this form without adequate translation and therefore I am unaware of it's content. I am however being coerced into signing my name so I am signing that what I write here is a true and correct. (Sign and date what you wrote not the form).'

Honour wrote: Phillipe, have you considered talking to your local rep at home? Tell them what's happening to foreigners in Taiwan. Maybe see how they repond? Give it a try, it can't make things any worse, and it might stop those nightmares.


I really don't see that there would be any interest from them, nor that they could really do anything to help. The fact is that the reason you are sitting in that room and being asked to sign the document is because you were caught working illegally - whether you knew it or not. Ignorance is no defence from the law and I believe that if you were honest when telling your story to the rep back home they would be equally honest in saying that as you were working outside of the laws of Taiwan that the laws of Taiwan cannot be used to protect you.

I think that what happened to Phillipe sucks for him, but it is not the fault of the authorities. Sure it would make things a hell of a lot easier if the authorities were consistent in their enforcement of the laws here and hopefully this is what will come out of all of this.

Eric W. Lier wrote: Taiwan's laws and procedures are designed to prohibit residents that are being deported from being able to defend themselves before the extra judicial sentencing is carried out.
In this case 2 weeks to get out or go to jail.


This is incorrect.

You can appeal a deportation order and in most cases this appeal will be heard. You can then apply to the CLA and BOCA for an extension of your visa and other documents until your appeal has been heard. Many foreigners have done this now so there is clear evidence that the government understands and is supportive in this regard.

To my knowledge however no foreign teacher has ever successfully appealed a deportation order based upon being caught working illegally so you should probably have your bags packed if you find yourself in this position.

My question to those considering an appeal is, 'What are the grounds for your appeal?' Assuming of course that you were in fact working illegally - whether you knew it or not. This is an important question to address before you consider appealing. Telling them that you didn't know you were working illegally is probably not going to help you a lot. If you were misled by a school into believing that you were working legally, and you could somehow show intent on behalf of the school to mislead you (maybe an email from them stating that your work permit was being processed, or an email stating that the ARC that they have given you entitles you to work legally for their school even though it is issued in the name of another school), then you may have a case. It seems to me that this would be the only legitimate defence if you were caught working illegally.
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Postby igorveni » 23 Dec 2005, 09:14

Excellent and very informative post B, thank you.
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Postby Philippe » 31 Mar 2006, 14:22

Just thought I would drop a quick update on my case...

As most of you know by now, I was banned from Taiwan for 5 years. But about a month ago, my former school in Taiwan received a letter from who I believe to be the Government explaining that they were re-opening my case. This remains an ongoing mystery as they never explained why they were doing so, and this after sending me a letter two months earlier saying that I would not be allowed back in the country. From what I was told, they were re-examining my case and would give me a decision in two to three months time. I still have no idea what this means for me or for other deportees.

Has anyone else received a similar letter recently?

Has there been any other N.E.T deportations since November?
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WARNING: BAD ADVICE

Postby Feiren » 31 Mar 2006, 15:08

brian wrote:Can your rights be exercised on the spot? Yes of course, but you have to judge for yourself how you exercise these rights. I don't agree with the suggestion that you should refuse to sign anything! I believe that this is disrespectful of the authorities and is not likely to make things any easier for you. Your embassy is unlikely to be able to, nor want to, help you as you were afterall working illegally. Therefore my suggestion is that you write your own statement in English on the form that they give you stating something along the lines of 'I am being asked to sign this form without adequate translation and therefore I am unaware of it's content. I am however being coerced into signing my name so I am signing that what I write here is a true and correct. (Sign and date what you wrote not the form).'


This is terrible advice. Never, ever do this especially with the police who all too often convince people to sign police statements by saying that this is just a formality to wrap up the case.

Politely but firmly refuse to sign anything that you do not understand and think very carefully about signing things that you think you understand especially if you are feeling under even the slightest pressure. This goes for things the authorities ask you to sign as well as private agreements.
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Postby ironlady » 01 Apr 2006, 01:47

Brian,
Can you please point me to the regulations that said it was EVER legal to work before having your work permit in hand? I realize that would probably be some kind of "guidance on implementation of Law X" and not "Law X" itself, but please...this sounds extremely unlikely.
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