Decline and Fall of Anglo American rights

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Decline and Fall of Anglo American rights

Postby brianlkennedy » 09 Nov 2006, 09:57

A Taiwanese attorney, who like myself is a human right advocate sent me a copy of the new British Anti-Terrorism Act, and asked me what I thought. This is my reply to him, which might be of some interest to others. (I have dropped his name out of the letter).

Good Morning Attorney X,
Thanks much for sending along the new British Anti-Terrorism Act, it made interesting and disturbing reading. By coincidence I was thinking over the weekend about the incredible decline and fall of civil liberties that has occurred in the Anglo-American law in my lifetime. When I was a kid, in the 1960s, the Warren Court was in control and civil liberties were at their high point.

Then starting in the late 1970s and into the mid 1980s on the British side there were all the civil rights/human rights issues raised by the problems (troubles as they referred to them) in Northern Ireland with the Irish Republican Army (the IRA). Coming from Irish stock and because of my work with Amnesty International I followed developments in British law fairly closely. As one would expect the war against the IRA was used to curtail civil rights, not just in Northern Ireland but throughout the United Kingdom.

On the American side the 1980s saw the big Ronald Regan War on Drugs. And in California there were all kinds of legal changes that really limited civil liberties. (for example the change that got rid of independent state grounds for challenging searches, or another example being the good faith exception for search warrants). And in California you had all the late 1980s and early 1990s hype about black and Mexican street gangs and how they were going to destroy California yack, yack, yack. But the general public bought it and traded civil rights for (supposed) safe streets.

Then 9-11. And all that followed from that; the Patriot Act, the new Military Commissions Law, the Bush Administrations position that the USA does not even have to pretend to follow the long established international laws of war and all the rest.

I was thinking to myself, my dad died in 1970, and his dad (my grandfather) died in 1965; if they came back from the dead and saw America; I am sure they would be shocked beyond belief about the state of civil liberties. Truth be told, what I have started teaching in my classes is that for all intents and purposes such things as right to privacy are meaningless in fact and in the law in 21st century America.

It is a sad and weird situation. But if you step back and look at it from a historian or political scientist standpoint there maybe a certain inevitability about it. What I think the historian or political scientist would tell you is that nations, like individuals, have a life cycle and as nations get older, they get more rigid in many ways and that rigidity partially leads to their decline.

One thing I am 100% sure of is that I lived to see the high point of America (which I personally place as being the day the Berlin Wall fell, I view that as being the symbol of Americas victory in the Cold War and the high point of its life. ). And now I see the start of the decline. Well, having said that, I predict the next 100-200 years will still be Americas Reign, which may or may not be such a good thing.

Take care,
Brian
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Postby Namahottie » 09 Nov 2006, 11:37

I don't know Brian. When white males start to lament the lack of civil liberities I have the same reaction that whites have to minorities :roll:

How about just taking the 'anglo' aspect out of it and finding the common denominator, which would be what you've already stated= an impact on HUMAN rights.
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Postby Wookiee » 09 Nov 2006, 12:37

Namahottie wrote:I don't know Brian. When white males start to lament the lack of civil liberities I have the same reaction that whites have to minorities :roll:

How about just taking the 'anglo' aspect out of it and finding the common denominator, which would be what you've already stated= an impact on HUMAN rights.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nama, "Anglo" refers to England or English (the people of England).

Brian's letter is about the apparent decline in civil liberties in both England and America.

Brian, great post! How about also posting some of the specifics of the British Terrororism Act?
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Postby Namahottie » 09 Nov 2006, 12:54

Wookiee wrote:
Namahottie wrote:I don't know Brian. When white males start to lament the lack of civil liberities I have the same reaction that whites have to minorities :roll:

How about just taking the 'anglo' aspect out of it and finding the common denominator, which would be what you've already stated= an impact on HUMAN rights.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Nama, "Anglo" refers to England or English (the people of England).

Brian's letter is about the apparent decline in civil liberties in both England and America.

Brian, great post! How about also posting some of the specifics of the British Terrororism Act?


Okay, I can take egg on my face :lol: yet, Anglo still refers to white, at least IMO coming from America. If I'm wrong I know some sauve forumosan will correct me :roll: :lol:
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Postby maoman » 09 Nov 2006, 13:48

Namahottie wrote:Anglo still refers to white, at least IMO coming from America. If I'm wrong I know some sauve forumosan will correct me

You're wrong. (I am suave, though, aren't I?)
Anglo=English
Franco=French
Sino=Chinese
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Postby Namahottie » 09 Nov 2006, 14:57

Maoman wrote:
Namahottie wrote:Anglo still refers to white, at least IMO coming from America. If I'm wrong I know some sauve forumosan will correct me

You're wrong. (I am suave, though, aren't I?)
Anglo=English
Franco=French
Sino=Chinese


See the sauvest of them all did it. Thanks. :lol:
@michellemalkin Just so we're perfectly fucking clear here: You're a crazy fucking shitwad. Enjoy your night. Read more at @MayorEmanuel
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Postby brianlkennedy » 09 Nov 2006, 16:26

Wookiee,
The Taiwanese attorney who sent it to me was actually directing my attention to the 28 day detention period, as well as the other provisions. The best source for the text of the law is going directly to the Home Office at:

http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/security/t ... -act-2006/

near the bottom of the page is a link to the full law.

Namahottie,
The reason for the focus on Anglo-American (yes, I forgot the hyphen) is that the Anglo (British) and American traditional of civil liberties is often viewed as being one historical stream.
Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown
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Postby TainanCowboy » 09 Nov 2006, 17:46

Ask a Mexican who the term "Anglo" refers to.
In the USA its a common term for referring to a 'white' person.

In Mr. Kennedys letter I took it to be used in the context of referring to British citizenry.
Considering that in the UK the 'Anglos have achieved zero-growth in the birthrate, they are fast approaching minority status.
Start boinking out the babies Limeys...Queen & Country and all that!
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Postby Lord Lucan » 11 Nov 2006, 14:36

I would extend the "Anglo" meaning to include some ex-colonies like Malaya which although set up with derivative versions of the UK common law system had the legal infrastructure in place upon independence to improve the human rights they felt the colonists denied them, instead took the road that leads them to where they are now. There are however, a great number of Malaysian lawyers, Malay, CHinese, and Indian, who are very concerned about human rights in the "Anglo" style. Of course I realise Brian is talking about Anglo-American law, and by extensions the other "White" colonies like Oz, and Canada, and so on. My point is merely that there are brown and yellow people in Asia who value the "Anglo" system of human rights protection. Although in "White" countries this has often been denied to non-Whites, Browns and Yellows and so on can still apply the same thought processes to their own people, if they want to, and many do. Am I making any sense?

Good response Brian. It's astonishing to see the countries that brought us the Magna Carta and the US Constitution (a wonderful document) using pizza and television (bread and circuses) to return us to the pre-Enlightenment plutocracy we have at the moment. Or was it always this way and I just didn't notice? Christ even in my time you could have a few beers in the park, smoke a doobie, even, and wear a T-shirt with "The Government Sucks" on it and not get arrested. Now if you take photographs of a tall building they put you up in front of a beak. I guess the days of "sorry officer but you see I'm on acid and can't find my university" are over?
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Postby TainanCowboy » 11 Nov 2006, 16:38

LL -
Just show the nice officer an ACLU card and it'll be a pat on the head and a "on yer way then"...
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