刚 versus 刚才

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刚 versus 刚才

Postby hexiaoman » 07 May 2012, 11:12

This video explains the difference between 刚 and 刚才 for anyone who has trouble with these two words:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0C2TrTnRJI
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby Gile » 07 May 2012, 13:51

I would like to use 剛 instead of the simplified one.. :D
Anyway, thanks for sharing that video, it explains the usage clearly. However for native speakers, we actually use them in some more easy ways. But you should aware that different positions of "剛" and "才" would change the meaning of a sentence. let's say "我剛才說了那一句話" and "我才剛說了那一句話",the only difference is the position of "剛" and "才",and that make them express different meanings. I would explain more if there's anyone that has interest in this. :)
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby hexiaoman » 08 May 2012, 01:58

繁体 or 简体, the grammar is the same ;)

And yeah, there are also sentences that use 才刚,but that's a different meaning from 刚才。"刚才" is a word in itself; “才刚", to me, doesn't really fit that description, although it's totally fine to use the two words in that order with a different resulting meaning. You have a good point: "我才刚说了那一句话" is definitely different from "我刚才说了那一句话." The problem our students have, though, is overusage of 刚才, and this is aimed to help them realize when they need to use 刚 instead.

A lot of textbooks introduce 刚 and 刚才 together, but the only difference students have to go on are rough English translations. This video is trying to help students get beyond the English meaning & see how they are used differently. Really, we just want students to stop saying "我刚才从中国回来了“, which a lot of them say because the difference isn't so big in English.
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby hexiaoman » 08 May 2012, 02:01

And I also meant to say YES, if you'd like to explain some more about how 刚才/刚/才刚 are different, I'd love to hear more so we can share with our students! My colleagues (both native and non-native speakers) and I have spent a long time discussing how to present these concepts to students, and although it seems simple to people who just use them all the time, explaining why you can't say 我刚才回来了 to a student is pretty difficult! We're always looking for more example sentences to explore new ways to explain these differences. So please do feel free to expand!
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby Nuit » 08 May 2012, 11:19

That's a really nicely made & educational video you got there. Well done :thumbsup:.
You've almost got me learning this 剛才 business.
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby Chris » 08 May 2012, 11:51

hexiaoman wrote:繁体 or 简体, the grammar is the same ;)

Sure. But the use of simplified characters is discouraged in this forum; after all, it's a Taiwan-oriented forum!
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby Tiger Mountaineer » 08 May 2012, 12:26

What about 剛剛 vs 剛 and 剛才?

Also, I'd like to hear some more opinions from Taiwan native speakers. A quick survey of my coworkers found that they considered the use of 剛 and 剛剛 in place of 剛才 all acceptable in the following situations from the video: [guy wakes up] "老師剛/剛剛/剛才說甚麼?" (all OK), and "我剛/剛剛/剛才喝了三杯咖啡" (all fine). In statements about the past, they considered use of 剛才 incorrect but 剛剛 fine. And, in the final example, "他剛才在這裡,好像走了", while 剛 was strange, 剛剛 was fine with them. So it seems they do not really denote this "continual relevant effect" with the 剛/剛才 distinction as strictly as you describe it, and it also seems 剛剛 is a catch-all time-when noun/adverb that they use more often than 剛才 in Taiwan unless they really want to be emphatic that sth "just" happened.
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby hexiaoman » 09 May 2012, 07:51

Interesting! Thanks for taking the time to ask around. I am currently working with a mix of Americans & folks from Mainland China, all of whom have been teaching Chinese for years (decades in some cases). I think there is a tendency amongst teachers to want to rule-ify everything, if you know what I mean... we try really hard to think of explanations to make things clear, and sometimes the result is that we come up with "rules" of our own, or generalize a rule too much. I will be teaching alongside some Taiwanese colleagues this summer, and I will make a point to ask them what they think. Like many things, it's possible that it varies by region. It's also possible that teachers and non-teachers will say different things.... If anyone else gets feedback from folks on what sentences sound "right" when changed to the other word, let me know!

One thing I will say, though -- with something like 我刚喝了三杯咖啡 versus 我刚才喝了三杯咖啡, I think the difference in the selection made here is in the context. Chinese is really contextual, and sometimes a sentence that is grammatically correct might become incorrect in certain circumstances.... at least that's what I came to after grilling my coworker with about 100 "what would you say in this case?" questions.

And my apologies for using 简体字, the computer I'm using is a bit limited in terms of font selection!
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby hexiaoman » 09 May 2012, 07:53

Oh and as for 刚刚/刚/刚才, it seems to me that 刚刚 is an emphatic doubling of 刚, and usually would replace 刚 instead of replacing 刚才... other thoughts, anyone?
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Re: 刚 versus 刚才

Postby Gile » 09 May 2012, 08:09

I've thought about how we native speakers usually use, and made some diagrams. I'm not sure if they are clear to you, anyway I'll share first and we can have more discussions later, and if needed, I may explain in chinese so that it'll be easier for me to make it clear, but somebody need to translate for me.. :D . sorry for my poor English..
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