Am I an idiot? I really think so.

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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby ironlady » 08 Jun 2012, 21:09

It's not rocket science.

Get some basic stuff down so that it's really, really YOURS. You can say it correctly and understand it immediately when others say it. On that foundation, your (then smiling, hopefully) in-laws will help you learn more -- once you repeatedly drill it into their heads that they must slow down and sometimes write things down for you. You'll start hearing things that were there all the time, only you didn't realize it because you didn't understand that little piece of the language.

A little Mandarin ability in this sort of situation (if the family is not a bunch of stiffs in the first place) goes a long ways to producing goodwill, which then multiplies and reinforces further proficiency. But what you need is ability, not memorized stuff. If memorized stuff worked, every student who started a class on the island would become fluent.
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby superking » 08 Jun 2012, 21:28

Falns wrote: giant squid penis


Mmmm, giant squid penis....
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby archylgp » 08 Jun 2012, 22:16

ironlady wrote: If memorized stuff worked, every student who started a class on the island would become fluent.


Well said: proof that the conventional model is broken.
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby Confuzius » 08 Jun 2012, 22:40

scomargo wrote: The teacher told me about this other class, which I thought she called the 媽媽班 (class for mothers). I thought I was going to be in a class full of hot young mothers :discodance:

Turns out that she really said 阿嬤搬 (class for grannies).


:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

thanks for this, that was awesome! :notworthy:
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby Confuzius » 08 Jun 2012, 22:43

ehophi wrote:
1. 海軍特別[地]挑選這些高價[的]品,雖然小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款及低科技的驅逐艦便宜太多了。The Navy specifically chose these high-priced varieties, even though slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats and low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
1.1. 海軍特別[地]挑選這些高價[的]品。The Navy specifically chose these high-priced varieties.
1.11. 海軍挑選這些高價[的]品。The Navy chose these high-priced varieties.
1.111. 海軍挑選這些品。The Navy chose these varieties.
1.112.這些品[是]高價[的]。These varieties are high-priced.
1.2. 小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款低科技的驅逐艦便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats and low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
1.21. 小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.211. 小一點的「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.2111. 「街霸」款便宜[得]多了。"Street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.21111. 「街霸」款便宜[得]多了。"Street fighter" boats are much cheaper.
1.211111. 「街霸」款[是]便宜[的]。"Street fighter" boats are cheaper.
1.2112. 「街霸」款[是]小一點的。"Street fighter" boats are slightly smaller.
1.21121. 「街霸」款[是]小的。"Street fighter" boats are small[er].
1.212. 新一代[的]「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。New-generation "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
(...)
1.22. 低科技的驅逐艦便宜[得]太多了。Low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
(...)


If you are an English teacher, I sure hope you don't teach language the way you learn it.

Though I do appreciate you teasing out nuanced syntax like this-these sorts of patterns made my brain want to explode in a mountain of melted vomit today in class.
"Knowledge alone is transitory, the outcrop subsequent to 'I desire all things'". - A. O. Spare
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby superking » 08 Jun 2012, 22:57

Confuzius wrote:
ehophi wrote:
1. 海軍特別[地]挑選這些高價[的]品,雖然小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款及低科技的驅逐艦便宜太多了。The Navy specifically chose these high-priced varieties, even though slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats and low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
1.1. 海軍特別[地]挑選這些高價[的]品。The Navy specifically chose these high-priced varieties.
1.11. 海軍挑選這些高價[的]品。The Navy chose these high-priced varieties.
1.111. 海軍挑選這些品。The Navy chose these varieties.
1.112.這些品[是]高價[的]。These varieties are high-priced.
1.2. 小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款低科技的驅逐艦便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats and low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
1.21. 小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.211. 小一點的「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.2111. 「街霸」款便宜[得]多了。"Street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.21111. 「街霸」款便宜[得]多了。"Street fighter" boats are much cheaper.
1.211111. 「街霸」款[是]便宜[的]。"Street fighter" boats are cheaper.
1.2112. 「街霸」款[是]小一點的。"Street fighter" boats are slightly smaller.
1.21121. 「街霸」款[是]小的。"Street fighter" boats are small[er].
1.212. 新一代[的]「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。New-generation "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
(...)
1.22. 低科技的驅逐艦便宜[得]太多了。Low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
(...)


If you are an English teacher, I sure hope you don't teach language the way you learn it.

Though I do appreciate you teasing out nuanced syntax like this-these sorts of patterns made my brain want to explode in a mountain of melted vomit today in class.


But for me I find them soothing and relaxing. I can see order in the cutting and pasting of symbols. Sort of makes me want to learn Chinese cos I can view it as a mathematical formula now. Weird, huh? Of course, I'll just go home and watch footy, but, you know...!
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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced. That's why people with no sense of humour have an increased sense of self-importance.
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby archylgp » 08 Jun 2012, 22:59

ehophi wrote:小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。
(...)


That comma should actually be a "、" .
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby Confuzius » 08 Jun 2012, 23:02

superking wrote:
Confuzius wrote:
ehophi wrote:
1. 海軍特別[地]挑選這些高價[的]品,雖然小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款及低科技的驅逐艦便宜太多了。The Navy specifically chose these high-priced varieties, even though slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats and low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
1.1. 海軍特別[地]挑選這些高價[的]品。The Navy specifically chose these high-priced varieties.
1.11. 海軍挑選這些高價[的]品。The Navy chose these high-priced varieties.
1.111. 海軍挑選這些品。The Navy chose these varieties.
1.112.這些品[是]高價[的]。These varieties are high-priced.
1.2. 小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款低科技的驅逐艦便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats and low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
1.21. 小一點的[,]新一代[的]「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller, new-generation "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.211. 小一點的「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。Slightly smaller "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.2111. 「街霸」款便宜[得]多了。"Street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
1.21111. 「街霸」款便宜[得]多了。"Street fighter" boats are much cheaper.
1.211111. 「街霸」款[是]便宜[的]。"Street fighter" boats are cheaper.
1.2112. 「街霸」款[是]小一點的。"Street fighter" boats are slightly smaller.
1.21121. 「街霸」款[是]小的。"Street fighter" boats are small[er].
1.212. 新一代[的]「街霸」款便宜[得]太多了。New-generation "street fighter" boats are so much cheaper.
(...)
1.22. 低科技的驅逐艦便宜[得]太多了。Low-tech destroyers are so much cheaper.
(...)


If you are an English teacher, I sure hope you don't teach language the way you learn it.

Though I do appreciate you teasing out nuanced syntax like this-these sorts of patterns made my brain want to explode in a mountain of melted vomit today in class.


But for me I find them soothing and relaxing. I can see order in the cutting and pasting of symbols. Sort of makes me want to learn Chinese cos I can view it as a mathematical formula now. Weird, huh? Of course, I'll just go home and watch footy, but, you know...!


I suck at math
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby archylgp » 08 Jun 2012, 23:19

ehophi wrote:1.21111. 「街霸」款便宜[得]多了。"Street fighter" boats are much cheaper.
1.211111. 「街霸」款[是]便宜[的]。"Street fighter" boats are cheaper.
1.2112. 「街霸」款[是]小一點的。"Street fighter" boats are slightly smaller.
1.21121. 「街霸」款[是]小的。"Street fighter" boats are small[er].
(...)


Looking at these sentences, it's not hard to see the problem with this method.


1.211111. 「街霸」款[是]便宜[的]。"Street fighter" boats are cheaper.
This could mean that they are cheap, not necessarily cheaper. It all depends on context. Another reason to learn language naturally in context opposed to memorizing "patterns/rules". Many sentences have this problem. If you want to make an comparative, there is a better way to do it...比較/較

1.2112. 「街霸」款[是]小一點的。"Street fighter" boats are slightly smaller.
It is just smaller. It does not (as far as a native speaker and myself know) mean slightly smaller. I think the default understanding would always be smaller and slightly smaller would need to be inferred through context or said with other words. Several sentences have this problem.

Language is not arithmetic; it can't be broken down into rules and patterns. It needs to be learned in context. There is a basic structure that is needed of course, but this goes way, way too far...
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Re: Am I an idiot? I really think so.

Postby Chris » 08 Jun 2012, 23:55

Falns wrote:Long story short, my in-laws put me in some kind of 'Chinese for Foreigners' class. It's a night class at a local guoxiaoxue.

Everything's in Chinese; the child textbooks, the yappy old ladies that speak Hakka every time the laoshi walks out to wash the chalk off his hands... I guess the only thing that isn't Chinese is laoshi's Chinglish Google Translator app. It's been roughly a year since I started sitting in this class (the chairs hurt my behind; they are way hard for someone with little natural cushioning). Memorization isn't a problem (tones, characters, vocabulary), but I am really hurting for syntax, grammar, etc. I look at the lessons, look up every work on my dictionary app, and then have to go home and Google translate the phrases. And then I have to ask my husband to make sense of some Chinglish here and there.

My husband and I speak English at home, because I can't say much beyond "Maomi didi pao di yi, keyi wo yao bingqilin" so I end up acting like I have no-mouth disease when my father-in-law lays down the law that no one can speak English. Am I just retarded for not being able to speak much of any Chinese after being there for a year?

Sounds like an absolutely dreadful class. You definitely need to get out and take proper Mandarin classes.
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