Major Depression

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Re: Major Depression

Postby finley » 23 Feb 2012, 17:14

MM: I wasn't implying the cause of depression was always an emotional issue ("what the hell are they"=bad or abusive families, chaotic or dysfunctional living environment, bereavement, drug/alcohol abuse, bullying ...). That's just the one I've encountered most often. I was thinking of one particular person when I wrote "emotional issues" - she was fucked-up on so many different levels it's hard to know where one thread ended and another one began. My point was, there is often a cause, or causes. "Low serotonin" is not a cause, at least not an ultimate cause. Even in those cases where someone's brain has, apparently, just thrown a random wobbly, there must be a reason. Just because we don't understand what it is doesn't mean it's not there.

In your case, obviously the cause was SAD (I used to have terrible problems with that myself back in England - it's one reason I don't want to go back there). No need to invoke biochemical mumbo-jumbo.

But yes, the brain does tend to invent stories to justify its physical reactions. That's the theoretical basis of Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. And of course there is mutual interaction so that it's hard to tell what's "body", what's "brain", and what's "mind". But surely that's another reason for not taking too seriously any half-assed theory that talks only about brain chemistry and ignores everything else.

Depression is a symptom of many types of common illnesses

That's what I said. Mostly, it's a symptom/sign, not a disease process per se, and therefore not treatable as such. Any medication should be considered palliative rather than curative.
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Major Depression

Postby headhonchoII » 23 Feb 2012, 17:17

Well put MM, many cases could have a biological component and it is poorly understood. Damp dark winters don't help that's for sure. Stress could also be linked.
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Re: Major Depression

Postby Mucha Man » 23 Feb 2012, 18:01

finley wrote:...Any medication should be considered palliative rather than curative.


It's both. Palliative in that it allows you to function and feel normally. Curative because it allows normal functions to return to the point where the brain and mind can once again function and feel normal without the medication.

Many people who suffer severe depression also suffer from anxiety. Anxiety in many cases is the real self-esteem killer as it makes it incredibly stressful just to go about your daily life without developing phobias, and panic attacks. Not sure if you've ever suffered panic attacks but they leave you afraid of returning to the place or situation you had them. Have them long enough and there aren't many places you can go after a while. It's disheartening in the extreme and makes you feel weak, cowardly, stupid and worthless. Hence the high level of disfunction you see in many depressives.

Most anti-depressants also work to reduce anxiety. That's the palliative part. The curative is that the reduction of anxiety allows you to make permanent changes to your behavior and thought process. But that takes time. Psychiatrists refer to something called "ghost anxiety" which is the feeling you get when you first start taking ant-anxiety medication. You approach a common stressful place or situation and your muscles and mind react in fear, but bizarrely your nervous system doesn't. You think you should be anxious but you really aren't. After a while your whole body no longer reacts to the situation and you can stop taking the medication. You are in fact cured.
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Re: Major Depression

Postby Fox » 23 Feb 2012, 18:09

Muzha Man wrote:
finley wrote:...Any medication should be considered palliative rather than curative.


It's both. Palliative in that it allows you to function and feel normally. Curative because it allows normal functions to return to the point where the brain and mind can once again function and feel normal without the medication.

Many people who suffer severe depression also suffer from anxiety. Anxiety in many cases is the real self-esteem killer as it makes it incredibly stressful just to go about your daily life without developing phobias, and panic attacks. Not sure if you've ever suffered panic attacks but they leave you afraid of returning to the place or situation you had them. Have them long enough and there aren't many places you can go after a while. It's disheartening in the extreme and makes you feel weak, cowardly, stupid and worthless. Hence the high level of disfunction you see in many depressives.

Most anti-depressants also work to reduce anxiety. That's the palliative part. The curative is that the reduction of anxiety allows you to make permanent changes to your behavior and thought process. But that takes time. Psychiatrists refer to something called "ghost anxiety" which is the feeling you get when you first start taking ant-anxiety medication. You approach a common stressful place or situation and your muscles and mind react in fear, but bizarrely your nervous system doesn't. You think you should be anxious but you really aren't. After a while your whole body no longer reacts to the situation and you can stop taking the medication. You are in fact cured.


Very true.
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Re: Major Depression

Postby Got To Be Kidding » 23 Feb 2012, 20:48

BTW, this is an extremely timely topic. I've been on the maximum dose for fluoxetine (aka, Prozac) for far too long, and things seem to be going swimmingly.

So, a couple weeks ago I got it into my head to start weaning myself off of the stuff.

Hopefully, by summer, I'll just be my naturally charming self.
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Re: Major Depression

Postby TheGingerMan » 25 Feb 2012, 00:57

the bear wrote:I love it when people who don't actually suffer from a major depressive disorder claim you can beat it with cold showers, rigorous exercise and a good book. :cool:

:eh:
You love it?
Something basically wrong with that.
Not least of all, how one can fathom "... when people who don't actually suffer from a major depressive disorder..."
I guess that must take some practice, or maybe even some schooling.
Who needs experience, right?
But maybe you got the gift, yeah?
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Re: Major Depression

Postby Mucha Man » 27 Feb 2012, 19:28

Just saw this on a friend's Facebook page. A very interesting re-look at anti-depressants. For mild to medium depression placebos seem to have as good an effect. For severe depression they are highly effective.

The British NHI is now issuing new guidelines for doctors. Great to see exercise and talk therapy being used for the first line of treatment in mild cases.

Funny thing is, this is the advice my psychiatrist was giving me 25 years ago: exercise and diet can give you half the benefit of an anti-depressant.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id= ... 3Dfacebook
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

http://hikingintaiwan.blogspot.com/
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Re: Major Depression

Postby Admiral » 10 Nov 2012, 11:49

I suffer from Bipolar 2. I went to the local hospital and saw a very nice, understanding doctor who prescribed medication (some kind of mood stabiliser) and I feel much better now. This was 6 months ago. I see the doctor once every 3 months now and he checks everything is ok, takes a blood test to test no toxic build up of the medicine. Great service and it transformed my well being. Go to the hospital and don't worry about language. I've never met a doctor in Taiwan that couldn't speak English.
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Re: Major Depression

Postby Dr. McCoy » 11 Nov 2012, 18:30

Mine is in remission. After a month we will start tapering off the meds. (not a major depression)
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Re: Major Depression

Postby moni1507 » 16 Apr 2013, 22:23

I want to suggest you something.. you might feel disappointed because you have had some expectations when you came, or feel refused to be accepted in the way you are. I am the same, but I can tell you solution for this: CREATE GOAL, set some goal and time limit to reach it. Make sure you can accomplish this goal only when you are in Taiwan. Remember that no every person has such opportunity as you to travel and live in Taiwan. And if you are here, try to get as much from this island as you can. Once you return or stay or move, whatever, at least you will feel you have not waste your time here because you reached your goal. My goal is Chinese language, finish book vol.3 within 6 months. And whatever how-ever I will be depressed or whatever happened to me, it does not matter as long as I reach my goal at the end!
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