WARNING! FALSE STD/VD DIAGNOSIS!

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WARNING! FALSE STD/VD DIAGNOSIS!

Postby Juba » 26 Nov 2002, 10:15

The other day, a friend who is applying for an alien residence certificate (ARC) phoned me in a panic because he had tested positive for a "new strain" of syphilis.

I advised him to go to the STD clinic in Ximending, which he did. They told him he did not have syphilis or any other kind of sexually transmitted disease (STD). The hospital he went to for the original test lied to him, either to rip him off for the cost of treatment, or possibly to fill some kind of quota for failed tests. So, BE WARNED! If you get tested positive for sexually transmitted disease, go for a second opinion at the government approved STD clinic in Ximending.

My friend declined to tell me which hospital gave him the false diagnosis, but, judging by his description, it was the Ren'ai Hospital. (The initial tests were done in a small building out back, followed by a blood test and an X-ray on the 2nd floor of the main building.) If this happens to anyone else, please tell the police and make a posting in this forum to warn others!
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Postby huizhe » 01 Dec 2002, 22:20

Aren't you jumping to conclusions? There are always various factors that can make a medical test appear to be falsely positive or falsely negative. Medical researchers call them "false-positives" and "false-negatives". They occur in all kinds of tests.

If you've read anything about the drug testing that athletes go through, then you'd know that they sometimes get false-positives for performance enhancing drugs when they're taking prescription medications for a cold or some other performance dampening maladies.

While it certainly is possible that some dishonest clinicians in Taiwan (and elsewhere) lie to their patients about test results, unless you have evidence of a pattern of such behavior by a particular hospital, clinic, testing lab, or doctor, you might want to think twice about making such a serious allegation and naming who you think is the guilty party.

You open yourself up for a liable suit if you knowingly make false public claims. Your post contains nothing but a few facts and lots of conclusions you have drawn without providing any evidence of their validity or truth.

I would suggest that you change your handle to "Chicken Little" for future posts like this one.
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A lawsuit?

Postby Flicka » 01 Dec 2002, 23:44

A lawsuit? For what? Spreading Urban Myths? Hardy har har. As if the hospital he mentioned is going to track the person down and sue him. Sure, hospitals in Taiwan make mistakes like this all the time -- like when they wrote on an ex-colleague of mine's ARC health form that HE was pregnant.
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Re: A lawsuit?

Postby Visitor » 02 Dec 2002, 05:48

Flicka wrote:A lawsuit? For what? Spreading Urban Myths? Hardy har har. As if the hospital he mentioned is going to track the person down and sue him.


No, for claiming that the hospital or lab knowingly and deliberately falsified a clinical test for financial gain. You'd better check out the difference between an urban myth and an libel.

Chances are that you're right about their not going to the trouble to track Juba down for his statement, but that was not my point. If you had bothered to read everything I said, you'd have seen that I was criticizing his unjustified and unsupported conclusion about the error and his indiscretion in mentioning the name of a hospital even though his friend did not tell him which one it was.

Maybe you ought to take some reading comprehesion lessons and learn a bit about rhetoric before you spew more scorn here.

Flicka wrote: Sure, hospitals in Taiwan make mistakes like this all the time -- like when they wrote on an ex-colleague of mine's ARC health form that HE was pregnant.


Another piece of anecdotal evidence amounting to nothing more than a mote. I'm sure the hospitals and doctors where you come from never make mistakes. The next time you get sick, be sure to go back home for decent treatment by "real doctors".
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Postby ironlady » 02 Dec 2002, 08:39

I obviously don't know the exact facts or circumstnaces in this particular case, but as a foreigner who's had my share of health exams at good ol' Ren'ai Hospital, I can say that I would not go out of my way to defend any hospital whose idea of a physical exam is saying "ni hao" and then marking off that one's heart, lungs, kidneys, stomach and Lord knows what else are all "normal"! They spend far more time with the color-blindness tests than with any real examination that might require actual diagnostic skill.

And -- for Westerners -- what is this insistence on exposing us to unneeded radiation? The tine test works just fine for non-Chinese as a TB screen -- that's why it's widely used in schools in the West. X-Rays are usually only needed for Chinese, who, according to my aunt who is a nurse, show too many false positives on the tine tests for them to be useful.

I'm not saying they did or did not falsify on this one, but when they start showing me professionalism and ethics (to me, taking my money to give me this certificate without actually giving me a bona fide physical exam is unethical!) I'll give them more benefit of the doubt.

**The above, of course, is merely my own layman's opinion, and should not be construed as being a libelous post concerning Ren'ai Hospital, the medical system in Taiwan, or any translation company operating, legally or illegally, on the island.** :roll:
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Re: WARNING! FAKE STD/VD DIAGNOSIS!

Postby Juba » 02 Dec 2002, 12:00

Juba wrote:The hospital he went to for the original test lied to him, either to rip him off for the cost of treatment, or possibly to fill some kind of quota for failed tests.

Possible motive no. 1 was my guess - motive no. 2. was my friend's guess. Yes, maybe it was just an unfortunate accident, but having an STD is a serious matter, especially for a prospective teacher in Taiwan. If false positives can occur so easily, then the patient should be entitled to a free second test to make sure, don't you think?

I must say I would never have expected the kind of hostile response I've had from Huizhe for warning fellow expatriates about this problem. By the way, Mr. "English instructor," what is a "liable suit"? :lol:
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Re: WARNING! FAKE STD/VD DIAGNOSIS!

Postby Tigerman » 02 Dec 2002, 12:23

Juba wrote:
Juba wrote:The hospital he went to for the original test lied to him, either to rip him off for the cost of treatment, or possibly to fill some kind of quota for failed tests.

Possible motive no. 1 was my guess - motive no. 2. was my friend's guess. Yes, maybe it was just an unfortunate accident...


I think the original respondant's meaning is quite clear and correct. Juba should not have stated as a "fact" what was/is really nothing more than speculative opinion. Given the problems we have all witnessed concerning the translation business, it should be evident by now that making accusations and naming names should be done so with extreme caution.

Juba wrote:I must say I would never have expected the kind of hostile response I've had from Huizhe for warning fellow expatriates about this problem.


By all means warn that tests may be false and second confirmation testing should be done. But that could well have been accomplished without libeling the hospital and its staff.

Juba wrote:By the way, Mr. "English instructor," what is a "liable suit"? :lol:


A bit catty, and irrelevant too.
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

From: All Things Considered - The Error of Impartiality
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Re: WARNING! FAKE STD/VD DIAGNOSIS!

Postby *monkey* » 02 Dec 2002, 13:14

Juba wrote:If this happens to anyone else, please tell the police


I'm not sure telling the cops you tested positive for an STD would accomplish anything except possibly a trip to the alien detention center to await deportation. It's hardly going to prompt a raid by the boys in blue on a hospital now is it?
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Re: WARNING! FAKE STD/VD DIAGNOSIS!

Postby Juba » 02 Dec 2002, 13:59

tigerman wrote:Juba should not have stated as a "fact" what was/is really nothing more than speculative opinion.

It is a fact that a wrong diagnosis was given - I only speculated as to the reason. The hospital staff are either liars or incompetent. Where is the libel?
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Re: WARNING! FAKE STD/VD DIAGNOSIS!

Postby Tigerman » 02 Dec 2002, 15:01

tigerman wrote: Juba should not have stated as a "fact" what was/is really nothing more than speculative opinion.


Juba wrote:It is a fact that a wrong diagnosis was given - I only speculated as to the reason. The hospital staff are either liars or incompetent. Where is the libel?


No Juba, that isn't what you posted. You stated that the the hospital "lied" regarding the test results. You posted the following statement:

Juba wrote:The hospital he went to for the original test lied to him, either to rip him off for the cost of treatment, or possibly to fill some kind of quota for failed tests.


You stated that the hospital "lied" and speculated as to the reason that the hospital did so. Your statement accusing the hospital of lying is libelous, unless you can prove that in fact the hospital did lie.

It is possible that the test failed for a number of reasons, such as human error in giving the test or the test, like many others, could be prone to giving false results, or the test could have given a correct result that was, through human error, recorded incorrectly. In any of these cases, the hospital would not have "lied" and may not have been "incompetent".
As it is, we seem to regard it as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has taken one side or the other. We regard it (in other words) as a positive objection to a reasoner that he has contrived to reach the object of his reasoning. We call a man a bigot or a slave of dogma because he is a thinker who has thought thoroughly and to a definite end.

From: All Things Considered - The Error of Impartiality
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