Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby Feiren » 23 May 2012, 12:53

I strongly disagree.

I have traveled extensively throughout Asia and have of course compared notes with many others. People hate paying non-local prices. Even if I can afford it, it puts a very bad taste in my mouth. I have never been charged more for being a non-local in the US, but then again I haven't lived in the US very much in the last 20 years. I can't remember any extra charges for national or state park entry in California though in recent years and I would be outraged if there were.

This is a terrible idea. Steve and MM are doing the right thing.

If foreigners really do get ahead in the line for paying extra, this needs to be clearly explained and there would need to be transparency on the numbers. That would probably end the quota program since Taiwanese people would probably be outraged.

Of course, the biggest problem with Yushan remains that there is no public transport to Tatajia, which means that very few people can afford to get there. NT$700 is the least of the costs!






Confuzius wrote:
Muzha Man wrote:
Confuzius wrote:
Muzha Man wrote:Well at least we have the local complacency about shooting themselves in the foot perfectly exemplified on this thread.


Don't see no one gettin shot in da foot or gettin hurt by this.

I understand your problem, a problem of principle. I simply disagree and think its silly.


Both Steve and I are heavily involved in promoting Taiwan as a travelling destination for westerners. We see this as a flawed policy that could hurt Taiwan for reasons given above. You have to understand that this isn't a place with a lot of cache for western travellers. This policy is just another example of bureacratic ignorence of how the world sees this place.


I don't see how this sends the wrong message or promotes the wrong image (as you said in another, followup post).

ALL sorts of places in the states including museums, operas, concerts, restaurants, etc, which are big tourist spots have different prices for locals and visitors (ie whether or not you have an instate DL or out of state). It helps attract more locals and makes the attractions more available to them. Shoot, even theme and amusement parks do it! I SERIOUSLY doubt this sends any sort of bad message or keeps tourism down.

If a foreigner comes to Taiwan and wishes to do this climb...do you honestly think that an extra 500+ nt or so is going to deter them? That's 15usd. After paying close to 1500usd (talking round trip from the US, give or take) 15usd more is not even going to bug them in the least.

It just seems to me you are making a mountain out of a mole hill. I understand your love for TW, your wish to promote it and why you are so passionate about TW not getting some sort of 'bad rep' so to speak because of this. However, if you do not get the policy changed I think this thread is doing way more damage to Taiwan's image as a wonderful, egalitarian and welcoming tourist spot than the price itself ever could-because you are making an issue out of a non-issue (and people are like cattle and are easily led...they would not have thought it an issue before...but after reading this thread and seeing that someone thinks it is an issue, they will too, well, because the are cattle). Though of course this damage is also, of course, minimal at most, but certainly more than the policy itself.

Maybe I should write the theme parks in my home town in KY, and the museums and theatres and tell them they should no longer have two tier pricing for locals and tourists since it is gving KY a bad rap (well, I think inbreeding, the noah's ark theme park and hillbilly craziness probably does that, but perhaps their pricing policy is just the nail in the coffin?)
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 23 May 2012, 13:02

Confuzius: I think it will absolutely make a difference. I will never go back to certain places in the world, most notably Malaysian Borneo, because of what incredible tourist traps they are. I felt dirty after dealing with people in places like Malaysia and Egypt for this reason. In fact, these days, I actually have very little desire to travel anywhere in the developing world as a result. Part of Taiwan's appeal should be that you can have your "exotic" vacation in a civilised place where you don't have to grind through these kind of situations (institutional or just broadly cultural) one hundred times per day.

There may indeed be places that charge split prices in Australia, but I actually find that really hard to believe. Too many people, including Australians, would complain. If I ever see such a thing, I know I will feel very uncomfortable and probably say something. Also, people have the good sense not to do it because they realise how short-sighted it is. The only real situation I can think of is to do with university fees. I actually don't think there should be anywhere near as many international students at Australian universities anyway, or they should dramatically increase the entrance requirements to basically native level English (not something significantly less). I never had many (if any) in my classes, but I'd be pissed off if I were forking out a decent amount of money to study economics and continually got stuck in group work situations with people who wrote/spoke fluent Chinglish and I had to carry their weight, or if my tutorials were generally a nonsense as a result. However, I still disagree with the way in which the university system in countries like Australia charges these guys so much money and whores itself out to them generally.
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby StevenCrook » 23 May 2012, 14:34

Feiren wrote:Of course, the biggest problem with Yushan remains that there is no public transport to Tatajia, which means that very few people can afford to get there. NT$700 is the least of the costs!


No longer true since they launched the bus service between Alishan and Sun Moon Lake:
http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi ... s#p1362111
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby sandman » 23 May 2012, 14:39

Just was talking about this to the girls in the office, all of whom studied overseas. All of whom discovered that they were paying many, many, many times the prices charged to local students. Their reactions, one and all? Are you allowed to say "Fuck off," on the flob these days? There is NO sympathy among the educated here about a foreigner fee -- they've have enough of it themselves.
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby Feiren » 23 May 2012, 14:45

Tuition fees and entrance fees to National Parks are a bit different I think.

Were they charged extra to go to museums and the like where they studied.

Great to know about that bus!
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby sandman » 23 May 2012, 15:19

Feiren wrote:Tuition fees and entrance fees to National Parks are a bit different I think.


They don't think so, it seems. They question exactly HOW they are different. And they, or people similar to them, are the ones making the rules. These people go to the UK and get charged foreigner price of, say, 25,000 pounds compared to their local classmate who is paying 5,000. That has gotta hurt. That has GOTTA stick in the mind.
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby GuyInTaiwan » 23 May 2012, 15:25

sandman: I agree that charging foreigners more is problematic. However, built into the lower fees for locals is the assumption that they will pay tax and contribute to the society (and so pay for the degree in the long run). Not only do foreign students not do that, but they actually take their degrees back home and then make their home country more competitive against their host country.

The people who really get screwed are those who study abroad and then obtain permanent residency or citizenship there. Those people do contribute and pay more. Perhaps they should be offered some sort of tax credits instead.
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby Feiren » 23 May 2012, 15:29

Well, since Mommy and Daddy paid in most cases, it probably didn't hurt that much.

Why should private universities in Taiwan be allowed to charge more when their students are usually less well off than those who get to go to the cheaper national universities with much better facilities, teachers, and finances?

Life's a bitch. Sticking it to foreigners who want to go to Yushan is still a stupid idea for Taiwan.
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby sandman » 23 May 2012, 15:31

Feiren wrote:Well, since Mommy and Daddy paid in most cases, it probably didn't hurt that much.


So you agree that if you think the punter can afford it then its cool?
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Re: Climbing Mount Jade to cost foreigners NT$700, but locals just NT$220

Postby Feiren » 23 May 2012, 15:46

I suppose us merkins are more used to this. If you go to a state school in another state, you pay higher out-of-state tuition. If you go to a private school you pay the same outrageous tuition as anyone else unless you are poor and then your wealthier classmates in effect subsidize us. The Taiwanese tend to confuse absolute equality with fairness.
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