HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby skybluish » 06 Jul 2012, 01:15

@pgdaddy1, they have passport, so, it’s not the problem, she’s planning to leave Taiwan with her kids after her husband funeral, but what I’m afraid of is like Finley said about how Taiwanese law works in practice and bad stuff could happen or he probably will trying something underhand like you said. He already told my sister to give him the authority for all his brother properties as most of it under her husband and BIL’s name.

Thanks for your good information, I really appreciate it, this made me feel relieved, I’ll go to Taiwan tomorrow.
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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby tommy525 » 06 Jul 2012, 02:26

Shes a Taiwanese citizen, she doesnt have to sign anything of her husband's over to anyone. THey are hers as the surviving wife. Sounds like someone is trying to push one over on her. She may be inheriting property or something of value ?

IF she has got nothing of value from her husband (house, etc) and wants to leave Taiwan, then I suggest take her kids away to Singapore (if thats where shes from) and let them stay with family and she can return to Taiwan for the funeral (but bring some muscle with her in case the BIL wants to get ugly) without the kids, to attend the funeral. JUst tell the husbands family that the kids will be returning often to Taiwan. Placate their concerns. They are afraid they will never see them again.

At the very least get in touch with the organizations as stated. They will help her. Taiwanese for the most part are not criminal. But the BIL wants to get either the husbands children or his property.

Lets say hes a good guy and feels an obligation to his brother to "legally" be responsible for the children (in case you should remarry) and is doing this for that reason. IF thats the case he will not want to remove the children from you. However, if you are going to leave the country with the kids, it may be that he is being pushed by the rest of the family to stop this and keep the kids in the country. Children are "property" that is fought over tooth and claw in Taiwan. IF you plan to leave and they feel this , they will do anything and everything to stop this. The deceased husbands family may gang up and forcibly remove the children from her. This is a very distinct possibility.

But at any case, she should get herself in touch right away with the organizations as listed and you should get over there to help her if you can.
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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby Icon » 06 Jul 2012, 10:41

skybluish wrote:@pgdaddy1, they have passport, so, it’s not the problem, she’s planning to leave Taiwan with her kids after her husband funeral, but what I’m afraid of is like Finley said about how Taiwanese law works in practice and bad stuff could happen or he probably will trying something underhand like you said. He already told my sister to give him the authority for all his brother properties as most of it under her husband and BIL’s name.Thanks for your good information, I really appreciate it, this made me feel relieved, I’ll go to Taiwan tomorrow.


Aha! Here it is. It would be very easy to give up all properties and claim to any inheritance in exchange for freedom, no wonder the guy is wielding the kids as barganing chips. This looks bad. Wonder how the debt situation is. In Taiwan, kids inherit the debts unless they renounce to them. They may get assets and debts, all bundled up.

Sorry for the depressing point of view, but I have also seen awful cases, one after the other, especially in cases such as your sister where the woman is effectively isolated at home. It is a very common situation, and family imposition is hard to fight.

Hurry here ASAP and if you can bring more male family members the better. Talk to the Foreign Spouse fund and hopefully they can also send someone over, too.
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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby Mick » 06 Jul 2012, 10:55

skybluish wrote:He already told my sister to give him the authority for all his brother properties as most of it under her husband and BIL’s name.


He has no right to anything that belonged to her husband. You should tell her under no circumstance should she sign anything with this parasitical brother in law. It must be awful for her having lost her husband without these cold hearted vultures hovering over her dead husbands body trying to claim property and money they have absolutely no right to at all.

Article 1138
Heirs to property other than the spouse come in the following order:
Lineal descendants by blood;
Parents;
Brothers and sisters;
Grandparents.


Article 1144
Each spouse has the right to inherit the property of the other, and his or her entitled portion is determined according to the following Subparagraphs:
Where the spouse inherits concurrently with heirs of the first order, as provided in Article 1138, his or her entitled portion is equal to the other heirs;
Where the spouse inherits concurrently with heirs of the second or third order as provided in Article 1138, his or her entitled portion is one-half of the inheritance;
Where the spouse inherits concurrently with heirs of the fourth order as provided in Article 1138, his or her entitled portion is two-thirds of the inheritance;
Where there is no heir of any of the four orders provided in Article 1138, his or her entitled portion is the entirety of the inheritance.


Civil Code Part V Succession (Republic of China)

In other words, because she has children ALL of the husbands things belong to her and her children. NOTHING belongs to the brother in law.
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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby finley » 06 Jul 2012, 11:56

Some good advice from tommy there.

My feeling is that the brother does have some warped sense of responsibility to his dead brother. Bearing in mind that he's just lost a sibling, and your sister has lost a husband, people are not going to be thinking to clearly at the moment. The Law - as written - is entirely on your sister's side. However, there are ways and means for families to make "private arrangements" outside of the law; in other words, they may use threats and coercion. They will do this not because they're evil, but because they have views about family that will be alien to you (or to us, or to many Taiwanese people even).

A lawyer will not be able to help you because, as a couple of other people just said, there is no legal question. What you need instead is muscle. In Taiwan, might is right, so yes, bring some male family members, or friends, if possible. Nobody needs to get violent; you just need to make it clear that nobody is going to be a walkover.
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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby sandman » 06 Jul 2012, 12:04

Yeah, I forgot to mention that since you haven't provided very much information other than the most basic of facts, your sister's brother-in-law might really have the best of intentions, but just a different point of view. Its a traumatic time for everyone, probably. If you can come here (very safe, don't worry about that at all) just to be with your sister at this horrible time, then that's probably enough for now. Is she Singaporean? With Taiwanese nationality? Then she really has NOTHING to worry about in legal terms.
But she REALLY should be in close contact with the foreign spouse network. They CAN and WILL help her.
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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby pgdaddy1 » 07 Jul 2012, 02:43

Please remember to keep posting from Taiwan, skybluish, and let us know how things go. A lot of new posters here tend to disappear and we never find out how things work out for then. I want to hear a happy ending.

I feel that Icon may have a point, that the BIL is attempting to use the children as some kind of bargaining chip to get what he really wants, his brother's property and money. And that maybe there is no risk of him abducting the children. But personally I wouldn't take any risks.

Regarding making allowances for the BIL because he is grieving- well a genuinely grieving brother doesn't talk like that.

So most of the assets are in the BIL and husband's name ? That's going to make it difficult for your sister because she really is going to have to go to court to win that. In fact, I would say that any assets that are not in her name now, and readily convertible to cash, she might as well give up on. She may be a Taiwanese Citizen, but she hasn't got any family might behind her, and no guanxi, and that's more or less all that counts in Taiwan.

My advice would be to GTHO of Taiwan with her children as soon as possible after the funeral. And not let any of her husband's family anywhere near her or the kids. In fact, go and stay in a hotel on the other side of town while she is making plans to leave, Seriously. The longer she stays in Taiwan the more chance there is of things going seriously wrong for her and the kids.
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Re: HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby tommy525 » 07 Jul 2012, 04:20

Do the unexpected. Pre-empt their move. Take the kids out NOW and park them with family in Singapore. Come back for the funeral WITH MUSCLE (to protect you) and negotiate from a position of strenght and take your time.
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HELP - Brother in law wants to take custody of the children

Postby headhonchoII » 07 Jul 2012, 13:10

This is the best idea, get the kids out of there first then come back for the funeral with some backup. Your sister is head of the family now.

The BIL has shown his hand already, both towards kids and property, time to take preventative action.
The law will stand with the wife but it's making sure you and your family are safe while details are worked out is the most important thing.
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