Prenuptial Agreements/Horror Stories b/c of lack thereof

Procedures, processes, JFRV, potential documentation difficulties, whether to get married in Taiwan or overseas, as well as legal basis for divorce in Taiwan, including all related problems and pitfalls, child custody, alimony payments, abandonment, extra-marital affairs, and other complications...
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Prenuptial Agreements/Horror Stories b/c of lack thereof

Postby Captain Coconut » 15 Sep 2009, 02:53

I'm an American man who's going to marry an Indo girl here in TW.

I found out that Taiwan has a law which says that both people need to agree to get a divorce.

So if one person wants to get a divorce, the other person can say, "Screw you. I want revenge." Or "I want more money." Or "I'm actually a mega-mega beeatch, you'll have to look up to see hell !!!!! hahahahhahahahahhahahahahha!" Then if you chase another skirt or whatever, you can be charged with adultery, punishable by something like a year in jail or prison plus fines?

Before I get married I'll need to have a prenuptial agreement saying something like,

1. 'If we get divorced, she'll keep what's hers (what she bought, her money and her bank accounts) and I'll keep what's mine (things I have bought and my money in my bank accounts).'

2. 'If one of us wants to get divorced, the other one must say ok to getting a divorce.'

(Originally I wrote a #3, but I deleted it because it was just a joke, probably a stupid one.)

I've heard that it's hard to get a prenuptial agreement, or lots of other contracts for that matter, recognized. That they're easy to break. But I can't understand why. If the contract isn't requiring any illegal actions or anything, and if it's signed and video taped and laid out very clearly, then wouldn't that be good enough?

Does anybody have any ideas? I know some people like beautiful, expensive things, but I really like cheap, free things.

I've known people who have spent like 40,000 US$ on weddings only to find out a couple years later that their husband is 95% gay but just in denial as he was very religious, or they grow apart or this or that.

Does anybody know any good, true horror stories that can add caution and ammunition to my reasoning? I really respect other people but somehow I feel better when I learn of mistakes to avoid, they seem so 'real world applicable'. Seems to add to my knowledge base. Also happy stories are great to read too.

Thanks!

Tags:
A prenuptial agreement, antenuptial agreement, or premarital agreement, commonly abbreviated to prenup or prenupt, pre nuptual, prenuptual, pre nuptial, marriage contract
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Re: Prenuptial Agreements/Horror Stories b/c of lack thereof

Postby Eiger John » 29 Sep 2009, 12:10

A lot depends on where life takes you all. You can get married here but end up somewhere else. Pre-nups are not perhaps super-useful or binding here, although there may be jurisdictions where you may have property or accumulate property or are likely to eventually repatriate to where you may want to have a valid pre-nup. It may also be useful as a reference point even if it is not legally binding later -- at least you can look back and (perhaps) see that you had no expectations of each other's money.

One requirement of some jurisdictions is that each party have their own indpendent counsel to review the pre-nup and to advise each side on it. But that's more to ensure later enforceability. It's probably a good idea in that it keeps either spouse from thinking that they were railroaded into some unacceptable deal at the outset.

Best wishes to you on your upcoming wedding!
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Re: Prenuptial Agreements/Horror Stories b/c of lack thereof

Postby Feiren » 29 Sep 2009, 12:26

You need to discuss this with a Taiwan lawyer. The basic rule in Taiwan is that both people get to keep whatever property they had when they married.

Property acquired by either party during marriage is communal property regardless of whose name it is in. There are exceptions for inherited property and certain kinds of gifts. After a divorce, each party adds up his or her assets and debts and then divides the resulting number by two. Half goes to each party. Obviously, this can greatly benefit someone who has a lot of debts at the expense of their finacially responsibe spouse. So in essence, the divorcing couple splits is communal property 50-50. It is very important to understand that bank accounts or real property may be communal property if acquired after marriage even if they are in the other spouse's name.

I believe that pre-nuptial agreements about communal property are enforceable in Taiwan. So the following may be OK:

1. 'If we get divorced, she'll keep what's hers (what she bought, her money and her bank accounts) and I'll keep what's mine (things I have bought and my money in my bank accounts).'


But terms contrary to public policy are not. For that reason, I'm pretty sure this would not be enforceable:

2. 'If one of us wants to get divorced, the other one must say ok to getting a divorce.'


Again, you really need to at least talk to a lawyer in Taiwan to help you draft an enforceable agreement if you will be in Taiwan.
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Re: Prenuptial Agreements/Horror Stories b/c of lack thereof

Postby Eiger John » 15 Dec 2010, 16:18

Feiren wrote:But terms contrary to public policy are not. For that reason, I'm pretty sure this would not be enforceable:

2. 'If one of us wants to get divorced, the other one must say ok to getting a divorce.'


Regarding No. 2, I'm not sure it's against public policy as in the majority of divorces in Taiwan the other one usually has to ok getting the divorce! :lol: (Yes, of course it would be against public policy in the sense that it would implicitly require the consent of the other even in situations of infidelity, etc. that would normally allow a divorce under Taiwan law...) I don't mean to make Taiwan seem backwards in that regards -- when couples here want to get divorced they can do it faster and easier than any place outside the Middle East. But when one party doesn't want to let go, Taiwan is as hard a place to get a divorce as pretty much most American states were up through the 60s and 70s.
"Power always thinks it has a great soul and vast views beyond the comprehension of the weak; and that it is doing God's service when it is violating all his laws." - John Quincy Adams

Article on enforcement of foreign court and arbitral decisions into Taiwan: http://goo.gl/hGXGG
Article on Cross-Strait intellectual property basics: http://goo.gl/ub4vA
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Re: Prenuptial Agreements/Horror Stories b/c of lack thereof

Postby mephistoned » 18 Jun 2013, 00:34

Yes it's nasty and backward, but that's family values for you here. There has been some call to look into this, but women in particular seem to feel it protects them against adulterous husbands who might run off with a mistress. I still think UK divorce law is worse in all honesty. Who gets custody of the kids is also nasty - in Taiwan its usually the man. I know of one lady whose evil husband was unfaithful, but couldn't be caught. The wife wanted out, but he had the kids, so he forced her to pay him a huge sum to get the divorce and then regularly blackmailed her to allow access to the kids. She had to pay and pay and pay for a man who had cheated on her. It's gross. But then in the UK, a woman could cheat on a man and still walk away with kids and the family house. I'm a UK citizen, I'm getting married soon under TAIWANESE law. I will have a great wife so I'm not terribly worried, but I still prefer Taiwanese style divorces...
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