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Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby myoungabr2 » 25 Jul 2013, 00:21

All, yes, certainly the petition I made was written for my own pathway to Taiwanese dual citizenship-- by virtue of my mother being a Taiwanese national. You are correct that the petition was originally written to appeal to the tens of thousands of overseas Taiwanese Americans who now currently do not have a direct right to return to Taiwan and reclaim citizenship here. When I am meeting with legislators here in Taipei or discussing the issue with Taiwanese business groups like the World Taiwanese Chamber of Commerce (http://www.wtcc.org.tw/v2/index.php/zh/home), you'll understand that I need to approach the issue from a perspective that is more in line with their understanding.

I can't bring this issue to legislators from the point of view of a non-Taiwanese person as this convolutes the message, although I do mention in meetings with them that there are broader benefits to the immigration reform that will streamline the ability for talented foreigners to stay and work in Taiwan and how this will benefit Taiwan's economy and bring it more in line with that of Singapore, Hong Kong and South Korea. As gnaij posted, the same comprehensive immigration bill includes all of the articles summarized by Dr. Milker that will benefit foreigners and facilitate every aspect of their being in Taiwan.

Regarding the interests of non-Taiwanese, I have spoken also with the American Chamber of Commerce (http://www.amcham.com.tw/about-us/structure/staff) and the European Chamber of Commerce (http://www.ecct.com.tw/aboutus.aspx?cseq=1&seq=2) about the legislation, and they are both aware about it. If you are an American or European here in Taiwan and the successful passage of this legislation directly affects you, take the time to call or email the staff at the American or European Chambers here in Taipei. I can assure you that them receiving a few dozen calls or emails from you all about the matter on a daily basis will be more likely to persuade them into taking more direct action through their government contacts than only me meeting with them as just one person.

I understand that how the Petition is currently written isn't broad enough to encompass the diversity of all the members of this board, but I would appreciate your support by signing it and understanding that the same legislation will benefit all of us, whether Taiwanese or non-Taiwanese, in our ability to live and work in Taiwan.

Thanks,
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby headhonchoII » 25 Jul 2013, 06:23

The problem is that some of us think we are entitled to a passport just like you are (due to our long residence and work history and contributions blah blah) so you claiming to be Taiwanese just because your parents are Taiwanese and then saying 'we are not Taiwanese' is kind of weird
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby headhonchoII » 25 Jul 2013, 09:49

In the eyes of the law yes, I would be Taiwanese. I don't care about the rest.
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby myoungabr2 » 25 Jul 2013, 11:22

headhonchoII wrote:The problem is that some of us think we are entitled to a passport just like you are (due to our long residence and work history and contributions blah blah) so you claiming to be Taiwanese just because your parents are Taiwanese and then saying 'we are not Taiwanese' is kind of weird


Sorry, I originally misunderstood your post when I read through it the first time. What I mean to say in the petition is that we should have the right to return to Taiwan and acquire citizenship with all the legal benefits associated with household registration, but until the law changes removing the 365 consecutive day residency period most Taiwanese born overseas will not likely ever be able to qualify for that citizenship. Taiwan currently recognizes us as overseas Taiwanese, hoping to maintain all of the benefits of the diaspora, but until it gives us the right to come back and participate as full citizens, I would think we are in fact viewed much more by the government here as foreigners-- as nationals of the countries in which we presently hold citizenships and passports-- than as actually Taiwanese.
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby hs172 » 25 Jul 2013, 11:40

Just sign it for the good of the people! *Scribble *Scribble
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Poagao » 25 Jul 2013, 12:05

myoungabr2 wrote:We should have the right to return to Taiwan and acquire citizenship with all the legal benefits associated with household registration, but until the law changes removing the 365 consecutive day residency period most Taiwanese born overseas will not likely ever be able to qualify for that citizenship. Taiwan currently recognizes us as overseas Taiwanese, hoping to maintain all of the benefits of the diaspora, but until it gives us the right to come back and participate as full citizens, I would think we are in fact viewed much more by the government here as foreigners-- as nationals of the countries in which we presently hold citizenships and passports-- than as actually Taiwanese.


That makes perfect sense to me, as you are nationals of the countries in which you hold citizenship and passports...that's kind of the definition of that very thing. In fact, I'd go even further and say that, as foreign nationals of non-Taiwanese ancestry are required to renounce their other citizenship to acquire ROC citizenship, those who happen to have Taiwanese ancestry should be treated exactly the same way.
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby gnaij » 25 Jul 2013, 16:35

Poagao wrote:That makes perfect sense to me, as you are nationals of the countries in which you hold citizenship and passports...that's kind of the definition of that very thing. In fact, I'd go even further and say that, as foreign nationals of non-Taiwanese ancestry are required to renounce their other citizenship to acquire ROC citizenship, those who happen to have Taiwanese ancestry should be treated exactly the same way.


Jus sanguinis is overwhelmingly practiced among liberal democracies. I don't see how Taiwan should be any different. You can easily argue that foreigners should not be required to renounce their existing nationality in order to naturalize. These are separate steps in the same direction.
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Mucha Man » 25 Jul 2013, 21:19

Muzha Man wrote:Well, you must have damn good Chinese to be so confident in your ability to understand the legislation that you are willing to sign a petition saying you agree with it. And frankly, if the OP doesn't understand that most foreigners in Taiwan are not going to be able to confidently read the legislation then he needs to rethink what he is doing asking for support here..


Maybe those who are illiterate and wanting to naturalize should be excluded from citizenship until they are literate enough to pass a proficiency test in Chinese with listening speaking reading and writing all taken into account?

Canada and many other countries do this.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizenshi ... wchart.asp


I'm not looking to become naturalized, though if I put my Chinese next to some of the ABCs I know, I should do alright. :cactus:
“Everywhere else in the world is also really old” said Prof. Liu, a renowned historian at Beijing University. “We always learn that China has 5000 years of cultural heritage, and that therefore we are very special. It appears that other places also have some of this heritage stuff. And are also old. Like, really old.”

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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Dr. Milker » 26 Jul 2013, 00:19

That makes perfect sense to me, as you are nationals of the countries in which you hold citizenship and passports...that's kind of the definition of that very thing. In fact, I'd go even further and say that, as foreign nationals of non-Taiwanese ancestry are required to renounce their other citizenship to acquire ROC citizenship, those who happen to have Taiwanese ancestry should be treated exactly the same way.

That seems like a pretty backward way of looking at things. Instead of less freedom and less rights for everyone, why not more? Unless you subscribe to some outdated brand of nationalism that requires you to pledge allegiance to a particular government or plot of land at the exclusion of all others. Why not give responsible, productive people the freedom to lead full lives in the country or countries where they create strong ties?
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby buzzkill1 » 26 Jul 2013, 00:25

headhonchoII wrote:The problem is that some of us think we are entitled to a passport just like you are (due to our long residence and work history and contributions blah blah) so you claiming to be Taiwanese just because your parents are Taiwanese and then saying 'we are not Taiwanese' is kind of weird


Are you going to become Taiwanese when you get a Taiwan passport? I thnk Taiwan should just hand out Taiwan passports to immigrants after they have been here a few years. In fact it should be mandatory.


Ridiculous
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