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Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Poagao » 26 Jul 2013, 09:10

Dr. Milker wrote:
That makes perfect sense to me, as you are nationals of the countries in which you hold citizenship and passports...that's kind of the definition of that very thing. In fact, I'd go even further and say that, as foreign nationals of non-Taiwanese ancestry are required to renounce their other citizenship to acquire ROC citizenship, those who happen to have Taiwanese ancestry should be treated exactly the same way.

That seems like a pretty backward way of looking at things. Instead of less freedom and less rights for everyone, why not more? Unless you subscribe to some outdated brand of nationalism that requires you to pledge allegiance to a particular government or plot of land at the exclusion of all others. Why not give responsible, productive people the freedom to lead full lives in the country or countries where they create strong ties?


Sure, why not give all responsible, productive people the freedom to lead full lives in the country or countries where they create strong ties, and not just some of them who happen to have the right ancestry?
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby tommy525 » 26 Jul 2013, 09:14

I think if you have legally resided on Taiwan , say over five years then you should be entitled to apply for TW citizenship. And not have to renounce any other passports you may carry. Because you obviously have built up some sort of life on the rock. IF five years isnt long enough , how bout 7 ?
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Dr. Milker » 26 Jul 2013, 15:35

Poagao wrote:
Dr. Milker wrote:
That makes perfect sense to me, as you are nationals of the countries in which you hold citizenship and passports...that's kind of the definition of that very thing. In fact, I'd go even further and say that, as foreign nationals of non-Taiwanese ancestry are required to renounce their other citizenship to acquire ROC citizenship, those who happen to have Taiwanese ancestry should be treated exactly the same way.

That seems like a pretty backward way of looking at things. Instead of less freedom and less rights for everyone, why not more? Unless you subscribe to some outdated brand of nationalism that requires you to pledge allegiance to a particular government or plot of land at the exclusion of all others. Why not give responsible, productive people the freedom to lead full lives in the country or countries where they create strong ties?


Sure, why not give all responsible, productive people the freedom to lead full lives in the country or countries where they create strong ties, and not just some of them who happen to have the right ancestry?


Which is exactly my point...we're in agreement!
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby myoungabr2 » 07 Aug 2013, 02:45

Just browsing on the web found this page from the Executive Yuan in which they describe some of the benefits of the proposed amendments to the Immigration Act, see here: http://www.ey.gov.tw/News_Content.aspx? ... FB6C697F51

If you haven't had a chance to sign the Petition yet, please do so here: www.chn.ge/1bEq0Xq

The next session of the Legislative Yuan starts next month and hopefully we can get this issue on the agenda with your support. Please send this to all your friends and family who might be affected by this legislation, the more signatures we get the better. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thanks,
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Zla'od » 13 Aug 2013, 06:00

Say, whatever happened to the discussion about letting foreigners apply for ROC citizenship without having to give up their previous citizenships? I see this somehow got left off of the agenda (which seems to have been hijacked by overseas Taiwanese). Since this is so, I would not want the amendments to pass in their present form--that would effectively force a delay of any other reforms.

Where is the petition for opposing this?
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby headhonchoII » 13 Aug 2013, 07:19

I noticed that particular amendment wasn't there, and also not impressed.
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Poagao » 13 Aug 2013, 07:50

Is this a surprise? This is an issue that overseas Taiwanese are willing to compromise on, as they don't have to worry about it (it doesn't pertain to them), in order to obtain the changes that will benefit them. Just being pragmatic.
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Feiren » 13 Aug 2013, 09:57

I think supporting overseas Taiwanese get citizenship is a pragmatic step that we can support even if we would like to see dual citizenship for naturalizing citizens some day in the future. The foreign community has to understand that letting us retain citizenship and become Taiwanese is very far outside of the realm of realistic policies at the moment. That doesn't mean we should stop asking for it, but there is little if any support for this. Other reforms will have to come first.

I think I read in the latest issue of Amcham's Topics that there is some discussion of allowing university faculty to become Taiwanese and retain their citizenship. This would allow foreign faculty to receive equal retirement benefits. My initial reaction is that while equal benefits is worth supporting, it will probably mainly benefit ethnic Chinese. I think it is also limited to a special class of academics recruited from overseas and would not cover, for example, foreigners teaching English in universities.
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby myoungabr2 » 14 Aug 2013, 01:59

Thanks all for your recent comments. The answer is that this current amendment is a proposal from the Executive Yuan to amend the Immigration Act, and provides positive benefits for both overseas Taiwanese as well as foreign professionals looking to live, work and acquire residency in Taiwan. You are correct that this particular proposal does not include the matter of one having to renounce their primary citizenship, which is required by Article 9 of the Nationality Act. Nobody is compromising anything, this isn't a matter of overseas Taiwanese versus non-Taiwanese foreigners-- the proposed legislation benefits all parties. You should note that the office of Legislator Bi-Khim Hsiao (DPP) is still leading the legislative efforts to amend Article 9 of the Nationality Act, but that the Nationality Act is an entirely separate law from the Immigration Act.

I believe Feiren is correct that supporting any and all legislation towards more liberal immigration policies is in the interest of all of us, whether overseas Taiwanese or resident foreigners. With each small victory we are closer to the end goal that we all share. However, I think it is not beneficial to any of us to vocally oppose progress benchmarks because they don't fully incorporate our particular needs. Effectively, that would result in a lose-lose for all parties.

We all agree that the Immigration Act and Nationality Act need to be amended, but note that if you will not accept small gains, you are instead suggesting that all revisions and adjustments will have to be considered in the context of a comprehensive immigration reform and review of the Immigration Act, the Nationality Act, and the Act Governing Relations between the People of the Taiwan Area and Mainland Area, the three main legislations concerning immigration. Given your knowledge of Taiwanese politics and partisanship, do you believe we are more likely to pass our desired legislation in a piecemeal manner, or a "comprehensive immigration reform"? Comprehensive Immigration Reform in Taiwan is synonymous for "Extremely Controversial" and therefore a probable continuation of the status quo for another decade or so.

By all of us supporting positive steps towards immigration liberalization, we ultimately will reach our shared goal of citizenship and residency in Taiwan.

Thanks,
Michael
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Re: Lobbying legislators to pass amendments streamlining the Immigration Act

Postby Feiren » 14 Aug 2013, 10:08

I agree with most of this analysis except that I don't think that Comprehensive Immigration Reform in Taiwan is synonymous for "Extremely Controversial". There is no controversy. There are no politically significant constituencies that support comprehensive immigration reform except for those who want to make it easier for PRC nationals to acquire residency and citizenship. This advocacy is just calling for 'equal' treatment under the existing immigration regime, not reform. That Hsiao Bhi-khim and a few other legislators over the years have enacted reforms like permanent residency is very remarkable. What political advantage accrues to this kind of legislation?

One very significant reform in the proposed legislation would be extending permanent residence status to spouse and children of permanent residents. This would benefit a lot of resident foreigners
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