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Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby Hokwongwei » 08 Oct 2013, 18:15

"Before the KMT/ROC government fled to Taiwan."
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Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby hsinhai78 » 08 Oct 2013, 18:17

Hokwongwei wrote:"Before the KMT/ROC government fled to Taiwan."


Except it did not. Taiwan already was under ROC administration from 1945 onwards. These 4 years when Taiwan was part of the "big" Republic of China are never mentioned by certain people...

Anyways, the best foreigners interested in naturalization can expect are lower income requirements. The ROC will not alter its nationality laws beyond the application of Chinese nationality law in Hong Kong: once naturalised multiple nationalities are tolerated, naturalisation candidates are required to forfeit all prior citizenships. Any further liberalisation would be seen as a move towards independence by Beijing as so far there is only one common Chinese nationality with similar conditions.
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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby afterspivak » 08 Oct 2013, 22:29

Any further liberalisation would be seen as a move towards independence by Beijing as so far there is only one common Chinese nationality with similar conditions.


You're joking, right? Honestly it's sometimes hard to tell if you are serious about this stuff or if you're just having a good laugh making these things up.

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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby hsinhai78 » 08 Oct 2013, 23:06

afterspivak wrote:
Any further liberalisation would be seen as a move towards independence by Beijing as so far there is only one common Chinese nationality with similar conditions.


You're joking, right? Honestly it's sometimes hard to tell if you are serious about this stuff or if you're just having a good laugh making these things up.

Guy


No, I am very serious about this.

Beijing views any major change to the Nationality Act or ROC Constitution that leads to Taiwan being less Chinese in a legal context as a step towards independence. Opening the gates and turning Taiwan into a de iure immigrant friendly jurisdiction that formally no longer adheres to a common Chinese nationality will have consequences on the cross straits relations.

I am therefore not surprised that the application of nationality law in Taiwan and Hong Kong does not differ much. It's the most liberal Taiwan can get without offending Beijing.
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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby urodacus » 08 Oct 2013, 23:11

hsinhai78 wrote:
afterspivak wrote:
Any further liberalisation would be seen as a move towards independence by Beijing as so far there is only one common Chinese nationality with similar conditions.


You're joking, right? Honestly it's sometimes hard to tell if you are serious about this stuff or if you're just having a good laugh making these things up.

Guy


No, I am very serious about this.

Beijing views any major change to the Nationality Act or ROC Constitution that leads to Taiwan being less Chinese in a legal context as a step towards independence. Opening the gates and turning Taiwan into a de iure immigrant friendly jurisdiction that formally no longer adheres to a common Chinese nationality will have consequences on the cross straits relations.

I am therefore not surprised that the application of nationality law in Taiwan and Hong Kong does not differ much. It's the most liberal Taiwan can get without offending Beijing.


tell Beijing to fuck off.
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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby Hokwongwei » 08 Oct 2013, 23:13

You can still retreat within your own territory. The ROC government retreated many times, eventually ending up here in Taipei.

Taipei, the capital of China. (Ignore that Beijing place they don't know what they're talking about.)
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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby hsinhai78 » 08 Oct 2013, 23:36

urodacus wrote:
hsinhai78 wrote:
afterspivak wrote:
Any further liberalisation would be seen as a move towards independence by Beijing as so far there is only one common Chinese nationality with similar conditions.


You're joking, right? Honestly it's sometimes hard to tell if you are serious about this stuff or if you're just having a good laugh making these things up.

Guy


No, I am very serious about this.

Beijing views any major change to the Nationality Act or ROC Constitution that leads to Taiwan being less Chinese in a legal context as a step towards independence. Opening the gates and turning Taiwan into a de iure immigrant friendly jurisdiction that formally no longer adheres to a common Chinese nationality will have consequences on the cross straits relations.

I am therefore not surprised that the application of nationality law in Taiwan and Hong Kong does not differ much. It's the most liberal Taiwan can get without offending Beijing.


tell Beijing to fuck off.


The electorate did not do that, they voted KMT. But then again naturalisation requirements are not really their concern.
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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby hansioux » 09 Oct 2013, 10:28

hsinhai78 wrote:
Hokwongwei wrote:"Before the KMT/ROC government fled to Taiwan."


Except it did not. Taiwan already was under ROC administration from 1945 onwards. These 4 years when Taiwan was part of the "big" Republic of China are never mentioned by certain people...



According to UN charter, Taiwan should have been governed by the ROC under UN's trusteeship, prior to that Taiwan had nothing to do with the ROC. Those 4 years includes illegal taxation and drafting of Taiwanese people and the 228 massacre. I don't know of any TI supporters that never mentioned this period, but I do know a lot of China centric people who would pretend it never happened or it wasn't that big of a deal.

hsinhai78 wrote:
Anyways, the best foreigners interested in naturalization can expect are lower income requirements. The ROC will not alter its nationality laws beyond the application of Chinese nationality law in Hong Kong: once naturalised multiple nationalities are tolerated, naturalisation candidates are required to forfeit all prior citizenships. Any further liberalisation would be seen as a move towards independence by Beijing as so far there is only one common Chinese nationality with similar conditions.


what does the PRC have to do with it?
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Re: Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby Icon » 09 Oct 2013, 10:43

By Oversize, eh, Overseas Chinese standards, if you are Chinese, you belong to China. The famous line is "KMT agreed to a gentleman's pact, after a certain time they will come back to be ruled by the Motherland". So Xinhai is right that it is assumed that all Chinese will be embraced under the red star flag.

OTOH, I do remember them cancelling residencies and passports from whities when China took over Hong Kong. Of course, hard to trace/prove. They do have the occasional token white face take a PRC nationality now.

I do resent his comment about making it easier by making it "cheaper" to get nationality. It is not a money issue. It is a parity issue, as has been discussed before. We got enough money, we are not scurrying under a barbed fence after crossing the Rio Grande on foot, thank you very much -I actually do admire people who do that, it takes courage and/or desperation. But my point is if locals can make passport collections of two, there and even four -I know, I met them, I seen them, they are my pals- nationalities, making us with foreigner passports holders give up ours seems a bit... unfair. So per ROC's reciprocity rules, if our birth nations allow them to keep theirs, we can keep ours. It's a small world after all.
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Dual citizenship to be offered to foreign professors at national universities?

Postby hsinhai78 » 09 Oct 2013, 16:21

Icon wrote:OTOH, I do remember them cancelling residencies and passports from whities when China took over Hong Kong. Of course, hard to trace/prove. They do have the occasional token white face take a PRC nationality now.


This happened to British residents who during the colonial period unlike citizens of other countries could settle in Hong Kong without any special permission or residence purpose. To gain right of abode they needed to stay a few years. Those Britons who had not completed the required residence period before handover in 1997 suddenly saw themselves without a residence purpose as from then on they were treated like any other foreigner. Those Britons who had right of abode before handover continued to have right of abode after handover. Seems fine to me.


Icon wrote: I do resent his comment about making it easier by making it "cheaper" to get nationality. It is not a money issue. It is a parity issue, as has been discussed before. We got enough money, we are not scurrying under a barbed fence after crossing the Rio Grande on foot, thank you very much -I actually do admire people who do that, it takes courage and/or desperation. But my point is if locals can make passport collections of two, there and even four -I know, I met them, I seen them, they are my pals- nationalities, making us with foreigner passports holders give up ours seems a bit... unfair. So per ROC's reciprocity rules, if our birth nations allow them to keep theirs, we can keep ours. It's a small world after all.


The motivations are clear: ethnic Chinese who hold foreign passports are seen as a bridge to other countries and as an influence in other nations' elections. Obviously it is of no appeal to a xenophobic society to encourage that the other way around.

Who generally naturalises? Foreign brides who could not care less about losing a Vietnamese or Thai passport. These women are more or less invisible as they speak Chinese and live in the role their new Taiwanese family gives them. Their offspring will often never set foot in their mothers' homeland and the cultural background these children experience is not much different from any other Taiwanese child.

But Westerners holding a foreign as well as a Republic of China passport? That will cause thousands of Westerners to apply for naturalisation. That is not what most Taiwanese want. These whities could suddenly openly demand things and unlike SEA brides they most likely will articulate demands. Whitie can no longer be deported for "disrespecting Taiwan"?

Good luck finding a majority in the Legislative Yuan for any kind of amendment like that.
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