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Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
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Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Hartzell » 21 Mar 2014, 17:08

There have been several articles in the Chinese-language Taiwan press recently about Brendan O'Connell, a Catholic Father who has served in Taiwan for over 50 years. Father O'Connell has founded several local foundations that take care of children with delayed development issues.

Importantly, he has been pushing the MOI to revise the ROC Nationality Law and allow foreigners to obtain local nationality without having to renounce their original nationality.

Apparently, the officials at MOI are taking his pleas seriously, and have drafted some amendments to the ROC Nationality Law which will be scheduled to be reviewed by the Legislative Yuan.

I found one good news article about this in the China Post, as follows --
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/nati ... denies.htm

The news report says that for many years, "Father O'Connell has repeatedly expressed his wish to be granted Taiwanese citizenship and to obtain an ROC Nationality Identification Card so that he can become a true Taiwanese." I think that many of us who have lived here for a decade or two or three or four probably feel the same way. We are tired of being subject to all types of social, educational, retirement-related, property-purchase, loan application, credit card application, etc. types of financial, economic, and general livelihood discrimination.

Moreover, people born of Taiwanese parentage can have dual nationality with no restrictions (except for the matter of serving in the civil service .... ), so why can't we?? Why are whites, blacks, South-Asians, etc. treated differently from people of Taiwanese ("Chinese") ancestry in this regard??

I think that all of us should applaud Father O'Connell for his efforts.

I was instrumental in establishing the category of "permanent residency for foreigners," and pushed legislators to have several public hearings on that issue in the late 1990s. Of course we invited high officials of the MOI, MOEA, NHI, MOFA-BOCA, and Executive Yuan to attend, with the hope of building some consensus on that issue. At the time, everyone said that my proposals were "far to radical" and "did not correspond to traditional Chinese thinking" during that era. However, when the Immigration Law was passed by the Legislature and then came into effect in 2000, it did contain the specifications for foreigners to apply for permanent residency in Taiwan. Granted, those requirements were somewhat strict at the time, but over the years we have seen quite a bit of relaxation of some of the more troublesome aspects.

Now, I think we are ready for the next step. Let's support Father O'Connell in heading up this new push for dual nationality status.

If anyone can provide contact information for Father O'Connell, whether snail-mail or email, I would be anxious to send him my best regards, including wishes for both ongoing success in his foundational work, and with his MOI negotiations.
Richard W. Hartzell
contact me by email at rwh.midway@gmail.com
Neihu District, Taipei (114)
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Zla'od » 22 Mar 2014, 09:48

They can already make exceptions for people like that. I don't see how this would help the average foreigner who has not devoted his life to charity.

A key problem is racism / xenophobia among MOI officials. I wonder whether some sort of protest might be productive. (The Chinese respond well to shame.)

Another approach would be to lobby the U.S. to remove Taiwan from TPP, the visa-waiver system, and/or defense cooperation. Not that the U.S. cares about us either, but the lobbying stink might get the attention of people here in Taiwan.
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Belgian Pie » 22 Mar 2014, 10:21

Political bullshit as always ...

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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby hsinhai78 » 22 Mar 2014, 12:31

The only thing that works is forcing the government. Obviously that will be impossible for foreigners in Taiwan. There are not many to begin with and how many would even be interested in naturalization? Politicians have nothing to lose as foreigners cannot vote.

Hence how to force the government?

Zla'od made a good point about the visa waiver. I would even go further and require Taiwanese to give up their citizenship before being able to naturalize in the US. There is no reasoning about fairness with Taiwanese. Think about it: these students who broke into parliament cry around about fairness yet Taiwanese society as whole see nothing wrong with their naturalization regulations.
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Byrd » 22 Mar 2014, 14:40

The USA cannot simply remove citizenship. Read-up on Afroyim v. Rusk

The visa waiver program is not a quid pro qho establishment.

The USA has no interest in its citizens gaining another country's passport. They don't care. If anything, they'd prefer you didn't.

lastly, Taiwan's 98% Han Chinese culture has no interest in big nose whitey coming in here and mucking up the place.
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby hsinhai78 » 22 Mar 2014, 14:48

Byrd wrote: lastly, Taiwan's 98% Han Chinese culture has no interest in big nose whitey coming in here and mucking up the place.


Exactly. That is something all these liberal DPP/student protest apologists should understand, locals regardless of political affiliation have on thing in common: mistreating SEA workers is fine and whitey better knows his place in the cram school or on a JFRV.
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Byrd » 22 Mar 2014, 16:24

never mind Father O'Connell, the real travesty is the lack of birthright citizenship. I have a 22 year old friend with missionary/community organizer USA white parents. He was born and spent his entire life here, yet is now forced to apply for visas and work on ARCs like the rest of us.

This is shameful and unjust......but so is the ROC occupation of Formosa.

Good luck to the preacher.
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Zla'od » 22 Mar 2014, 20:59

While the State Department is obviously uninterested in the issue, a campaign to influence US congress (however unlikely) might catch the attention of the government here.

On Taiwanese with dual citizenship, it would be possible to lobby for Taiwan to receive smaller immigration quotas, or some such. The irony, of course, is that this would disproportionately affect our spouses.
“What part of a woman is the yet, anyway? I heard there was a fight here in Tulsa, and a woman was shot in the fracas. The doc said the bullet is in her yet. And how did the bullet get in her yet, when she was shot in the fracas?"
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Byrd » 23 Mar 2014, 04:12

I'm still thoroughly confused as to each party's motivation? Why would the USA / ROC want to change their current citizenship policies / laws?

The ROC is currently in no hurry to accept new foreign citizens, and it has no use for those who wish to immigrate out of this country. Outside of English teachers and cheap labor from SE Asia, I'm still yet to see the Taiwanese having a use for a foreign presence.

As for the USA, they already have millions of illegal foreign residents, and they give no favoritism to other countrymen trying to migrate in.

I don't see why the status quo would be motivated to change. especially on such a huge issue as ROC citizenship.

The RIGHT thing for a civilized country to do is offer birthright citizenship to all. If you're born here, then this is your country and this is your soil.

If a country or nation like Taiwan doesn't want to offer citizenship to long term residents or married spouses without renunciation of one's original passport, that is their choice. No country likes dual citizens.

It makes me proud to know I am from a country that offers freedom and safe haven, in a world of isolationists and small people. :America:
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Re: Dual Nationality developments [March 2014]

Postby Zla'od » 23 Mar 2014, 07:06

Motivation works like this: if each member of congress gets like, 15 letters asking them to exclude Taiwan from the TPP, or to end the visa waiver because of non-reciprocal laws, then questions would start getting asked. Anger at the fundamental unfairness would be a powerful motivator. ("Our doors are open to them, but theirs are closed to us! How dare they?!")

On the other hand, if Fr. O'Connell is lobbying to change the law itself, and not simply to receive a passport for himself, then great. What, if anything, can we non-saints do to support his efforts?

Maybe he should join forces with that Polish woman who grew up here, and then had to fight being deported. It's on one of the other threads on which this issue is being discussed (and which should really be combined):

http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopi ... 6&t=122282
“What part of a woman is the yet, anyway? I heard there was a fight here in Tulsa, and a woman was shot in the fracas. The doc said the bullet is in her yet. And how did the bullet get in her yet, when she was shot in the fracas?"
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