Military duty

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
Forum rules
While the moderators are happy to help point people in the right direction for legal assistance and to attempt to keep these forums civil and tidy, please bear in mind that an Internet forum is not the place for providing or receiving legal advice or for the creation of any attorney-client privileges or obligations. Also keep in mind that Forumosa and the moderators cannot conduct comprehensive reviews of all laws or legal concepts referenced or discussed within these forums – laws and regulations are updated and amended, interpretations do change, and sometimes the legal landscape can change very fast. Forumosa provides these legal forums for general informational purposes only. By using these legal forums, you agree that the information does not constitute legal or other professional advice and no attorney-client or other relationship is created between you and any other posters on these forums. DO NOT CONSIDER THE FORUMS TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR OBTAINING LEGAL ADVICE FROM A QUALIFIED LICENSED ATTORNEY.

Re: Military duty

Postby TainanCowboy » 23 Mar 2009, 12:26

Not desiring to 'fight' for ones country does have historical precedent.
As a matter of facts it has been something that some elements have depended upon to achieve their agenda of "hope & change."

Here is how one very well known author sums up his view of the results of such refusal.
From Solzhenitsyn's "Gulag Archepelago".
Footnote 5, from Chapter One of Volume One.

"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain if he would return alive and had to say goodbye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door, and every step on the staircase, but had understood that that they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush with half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers and whatever was at hand? After all, you knew ahead of time that those bluecaps were out at night for no good purpose. And you could be sure ahead of time that you’d be cracking the skull of a cutthroat. Or what about that Black Maria sitting out there on the street with one lonely chauffer – what if it had been driven off or its tires spiked? The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If…if… We didn’t love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation. We spent ourselves in one unrestrained outburst in 1917, and then we hurried to submit. We submitted with pleasure! (Arthur Ransome describes a workers meeting in Yaroslavl in 1921. Delegates were sent to the workers from the Central Committee in Moscow to confer on the substance of the argument about trade unions. The representative of the opposition, Y. Larin, explained to the trade workers that their trade union must be their defense against the administration, that they possessed rights which they had won and upon which no one else had any right to infringe. The workers however were completely indifferent, simply not comprehending whom they still needed to be defended against and why they still needed any rights. When the spokesman rebuked them for their laziness and for getting out of hand, and demanded sacrifices from them – overtime work without pay, reductions in food, military discipline in the factory administration – this aroused great elation and applause.) We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward."

A few paragraphs later he wrote..."Every man has handy a dozen glib little reasons why he is right not to sacrifice himself."


Just one opinion.
"Pardon him, Theodotus; he is a barbarian and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature" --- "Caesar and Cleopatra"...G.B. Shaw
-----
Kid Rock - Born Free
-----
"The big sisters are usually hot, but the dads smell of alcohol and tobacco....and have dirty feet with dead toe nails in blue slippers. "...Bob_Honest on "The Culture"
------
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
------
Isaiah 40:31
Forumosan avatar
TainanCowboy
Guan Yin (Guānyīn)
 
Posts: 16234
Joined: 18 Jun 2004, 17:50
Location: Tainan - The Original Taiwan
103 Recommends(s)
49 Recognized(s)



Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 23 Mar 2009, 14:18

sandman wrote:It's not about responsibility at all, IMO. It's about not rolling over onto your back and surrendering to the whims of self-serving politicians whose only mandate is lining their own pockets. In fact, I'd go further and say its every citizen's duty to stick the middle finger up at these slimeballs and tell 'em "hell no, we won't go!"

That I would respect. That would at least be standing up for your beliefs. And if everyone grew some backbone and stood up to a situation they find unfair/only in the interest of politicians etc etc, then perhaps they could get the law changed.
Image
World Champions 1995, 2007; Tri-Nations champions 1998, 2004, 2009; Grand Slam Champions 1912/13, 1931/32, 1951/52, 1960/61; Defeated British & Irish Lions 1903, 1924, 1938, 1962, 1968, 1980, 2009
Image
Super 14 Champions 2007, 2009, 2010
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
Forumosan avatar
bismarck
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11605
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 04:44
Location: Tainan City 台彎, 台南
150 Recommends(s)
143 Recognized(s)



Re: Military duty

Postby rkn » 13 May 2009, 22:11

I have flat feet. :doh:

Do TW citizens with flat feet still have to serve in the TW military? Or are they exempt completely and can go about their civilian lives?

Or maybe they still have to serve, but they get assigned to paperwork duties instead of running around in training?
Forumosan avatar
rkn
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
 
Posts: 15
Joined: 25 Apr 2009, 14:38



Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 14 May 2009, 16:08

rkn wrote:I have flat feet. :doh:

Do TW citizens with flat feet still have to serve in the TW military? Or are they exempt completely and can go about their civilian lives?

Or maybe they still have to serve, but they get assigned to paperwork duties instead of running around in training?

Why don't you go ask your nearest Army information office? They're usually by your local Household registration office...
Image
World Champions 1995, 2007; Tri-Nations champions 1998, 2004, 2009; Grand Slam Champions 1912/13, 1931/32, 1951/52, 1960/61; Defeated British & Irish Lions 1903, 1924, 1938, 1962, 1968, 1980, 2009
Image
Super 14 Champions 2007, 2009, 2010
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
Forumosan avatar
bismarck
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11605
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 04:44
Location: Tainan City 台彎, 台南
150 Recommends(s)
143 Recognized(s)



Re: Military duty

Postby rkn » 18 May 2009, 13:20

bismarck wrote:
rkn wrote:I have flat feet. :doh:

Do TW citizens with flat feet still have to serve in the TW military? Or are they exempt completely and can go about their civilian lives?

Or maybe they still have to serve, but they get assigned to paperwork duties instead of running around in training?

Why don't you go ask your nearest Army information office? They're usually by your local Household registration office...


Hi Bismark! The reason why I'm posting on this forum is because I'm not a TW citizen (yet). I am American but I am of TW descent, so I am eligible for citizenship (and therefore getting drafted). As I am overseas, it is a bit difficult for me to check with the nearest Army Info. Office. But I will do that when I go to TW for vacation next month. What is the name of the Army Info. Office in Chinese (Pinyin or Characters Acceptable)? Thanks~
Forumosan avatar
rkn
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
 
Posts: 15
Joined: 25 Apr 2009, 14:38



Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 18 May 2009, 13:51

No idea. I recognize the characters and went in, but I can't remember the exact name. They're easily recognizable and they're usually next to the HHR office.
They really are the best people to speak to, as anything else is just conjecture and second hand information. You may have circumstances that are different from mine and may fall into a different category entirely.

I've served in the military before, so I don't need to do it again after I'm naturalized. Plus I'm not ethnically Chinese. Which is why I'd be loath to give you advice as it may be wrong.
Contrary to popular opinion, they're not out to "get you", they're just doing their job and working within the current law. They're very friendly and eager to give you advice. When I spoke to the guy there he immediately asked if I had done military service before as that would mean I wouldn't have to do it again (although I would be called up in the event of a war or something of that nature). I got the impression they are more willing to help you find a loop hole than trick you into serving.
Image
World Champions 1995, 2007; Tri-Nations champions 1998, 2004, 2009; Grand Slam Champions 1912/13, 1931/32, 1951/52, 1960/61; Defeated British & Irish Lions 1903, 1924, 1938, 1962, 1968, 1980, 2009
Image
Super 14 Champions 2007, 2009, 2010
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
Forumosan avatar
bismarck
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11605
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 04:44
Location: Tainan City 台彎, 台南
150 Recommends(s)
143 Recognized(s)



Re: Military duty

Postby kungwan2000 » 18 May 2009, 20:23

rkn wrote:What is the name of the Army Info. Office in Chinese (Pinyin or Characters Acceptable)? Thanks~


The name of the office is called

兵役課 [Bing1Yi4 Ke1]

it is located at the

戶政事務所 [hu4zheng4 shi4wu4suo3] or 區公所 [qu1gong1 suo3]

---------

bismarck wrote:Contrary to popular opinion, they're not out to "get you", they're just doing their job and working within the current law. They're very friendly and eager to give you advice. When I spoke to the guy there he immediately asked if I had done military service before as that would mean I wouldn't have to do it again (although I would be called up in the event of a war or something of that nature). I got the impression they are more willing to help you find a loop hole than trick you into serving.


I agree with Bismark here, that they are usually very friendly and helpful with their advice. They also have the most up-to-date official information at hand which is most important- the laws governing conscription keep changing (e.g. the length of service was reduced twice when I was conscripted). If you are afraid to talk directly with the military personnel at the 兵役課 office, there are usually friendly people at the reception who can also help.
Forumosan avatar
kungwan2000
Grasshopper (cǎo měng)
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 28 Apr 2005, 15:12
Location: Brighton, UK
38 Recommends(s)
12 Recognized(s)



Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 18 May 2009, 23:14

kungwan2000 wrote:
rkn wrote:What is the name of the Army Info. Office in Chinese (Pinyin or Characters Acceptable)? Thanks~


The name of the office is called

兵役課 [Bing1Yi4 Ke1]

it is located at the

戶政事務所 [hu4zheng4 shi4wu4suo3] or 區公所 [qu1gong1 suo3]

---------

bismarck wrote:Contrary to popular opinion, they're not out to "get you", they're just doing their job and working within the current law. They're very friendly and eager to give you advice. When I spoke to the guy there he immediately asked if I had done military service before as that would mean I wouldn't have to do it again (although I would be called up in the event of a war or something of that nature). I got the impression they are more willing to help you find a loop hole than trick you into serving.


I agree with Bismark here, that they are usually very friendly and helpful with their advice. They also have the most up-to-date official information at hand which is most important- the laws governing conscription keep changing (e.g. the length of service was reduced twice when I was conscripted). If you are afraid to talk directly with the military personnel at the 兵役課 office, there are usually friendly people at the reception who can also help.

Thanks, my good man. I knew it was something with 兵, but the full title escaped me.
Image
World Champions 1995, 2007; Tri-Nations champions 1998, 2004, 2009; Grand Slam Champions 1912/13, 1931/32, 1951/52, 1960/61; Defeated British & Irish Lions 1903, 1924, 1938, 1962, 1968, 1980, 2009
Image
Super 14 Champions 2007, 2009, 2010
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
Forumosan avatar
bismarck
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11605
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 04:44
Location: Tainan City 台彎, 台南
150 Recommends(s)
143 Recognized(s)



Re: Military duty

Postby rkn » 19 May 2009, 22:43

kungwan2000 wrote:
rkn wrote:What is the name of the Army Info. Office in Chinese (Pinyin or Characters Acceptable)? Thanks~


The name of the office is called

兵役課 [Bing1Yi4 Ke1]

it is located at the

戶政事務所 [hu4zheng4 shi4wu4suo3] or 區公所 [qu1gong1 suo3]

---------

bismarck wrote:Contrary to popular opinion, they're not out to "get you", they're just doing their job and working within the current law. They're very friendly and eager to give you advice. When I spoke to the guy there he immediately asked if I had done military service before as that would mean I wouldn't have to do it again (although I would be called up in the event of a war or something of that nature). I got the impression they are more willing to help you find a loop hole than trick you into serving.


I agree with Bismark here, that they are usually very friendly and helpful with their advice. They also have the most up-to-date official information at hand which is most important- the laws governing conscription keep changing (e.g. the length of service was reduced twice when I was conscripted). If you are afraid to talk directly with the military personnel at the 兵役課 office, there are usually friendly people at the reception who can also help.


Thanks, you two! When my mom married my dad, I believe my mom's huji got transferred to my dad's hometown (Hsingchu)? Does that mean I would have to talk to the 兵役課 office in Hsingchu? I assume that's where my huji would fall under if/when I get naturalized?
Forumosan avatar
rkn
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
Ink Still Wet in Passport (shífēn xīnshǒu)
 
Posts: 15
Joined: 25 Apr 2009, 14:38



Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 20 May 2009, 01:50

rkn wrote:Thanks, you two! When my mom married my dad, I believe my mom's huji got transferred to my dad's hometown (Hsingchu)? Does that mean I would have to talk to the 兵役課 office in Hsingchu? I assume that's where my huji would fall under if/when I get naturalized?

You could talk to any 兵役課 office if you're just looking for information. However, where you need to get stuff done would depend on where huji is. I would assume Hsingchu (Hsinchu?) would be your best bet.
Image
World Champions 1995, 2007; Tri-Nations champions 1998, 2004, 2009; Grand Slam Champions 1912/13, 1931/32, 1951/52, 1960/61; Defeated British & Irish Lions 1903, 1924, 1938, 1962, 1968, 1980, 2009
Image
Super 14 Champions 2007, 2009, 2010
Don't talk to me about naval tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy and the lash.
Sir Winston Churchill

Second of all, as in all honeymoons, all is well until it is not. It is until the unexpected happens that you will see all grievances surface -ask anyone in any relationship. The girl can chew with her mouth open, that if you love her, you do not care. If you do not lover her, if her pinkie toe is half an inch deviant, the relationship is doomed. - Icon
Forumosan avatar
bismarck
Maitreya Buddha (Mílèfó)
 
Posts: 11605
Joined: 07 Jan 2005, 04:44
Location: Tainan City 台彎, 台南
150 Recommends(s)
143 Recognized(s)



FRIENDLY REMINDER
   Please remember that Forumosa is not responsible for the content that appears on the other side of links that Forumosans post on our forums. As a discussion website, we encourage open and frank debate. We have learned that the most effective way to address questionable claims or accusations on Forumosa is by engaging in a sincere and constructive conversation. To make this website work, we must all feel safe in expressing our opinions, this also means backing up any claims with hard facts, including links to other websites.
   Please also remember that one should not believe everything one reads on the Internet, particularly from websites whose content cannot be easily verified or substantiated. Use your common sense and do not hesitate to ask for proof.
Previous




Proceed to Dual Nationality



Who is online

Forumosans browsing this forum: No Forumosans and 2 visitors

Nobody, but nobody, is going to give you half of $80 million to help them liberate the funds of a deceased millionaire…from Nigeria or anywhere else.
More tips from David Pogue