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Military duty

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
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Re: Military duty

Postby cfimages » 18 Mar 2009, 13:41

bismarck wrote:Seems Churchill was right afterall.





I'm sorry, is it just me or have all the f***ing men died?


Gandhi lived to the motto "ahimsa paramo dharma". It translates roughly as "non-violence is the highest virtue".

A patch of land is not worth killing for.
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Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 18 Mar 2009, 14:22

cfimages wrote:
bismarck wrote:Seems Churchill was right afterall.





I'm sorry, is it just me or have all the f***ing men died?


Gandhi lived to the motto "ahimsa paramo dharma". It translates roughly as "non-violence is the highest virtue".

A patch of land is not worth killing for.

I wonder if you still would've held that view if the boys who died holding off the Japanese from invading Australia had shared your views, or if the Americans had felt similarly after Pearl Harbor.
Gandhi's ideas of non-violent resistance only worked because he had a population of 200 million verses a few thousand British soldiers, functioning within the realm of a colonial system that was way past it's sell by date. I wonder if he would've maintained that opinion if a million man Chinese army had poured into India slaughtering every living thing to take a patch of land that "isn't worth killing/dying for."

And are things like freedom, liberty and democracy no longer worth defending from invaders neither? Shit, if we held this view seventy years ago we could've saved millions of lives and just let the Nazi's have Europe. Afterall, they were just looking for a little Lebensraum. Hardly a principle worth killing for.

It may serve our purposes here to remember that the Rape of Nanjing and countless other atrocities in Europe and Asia during the war occurred only because the regions/countries in question didn't have the means to defend themselves.

Besides which, no one is asking him to kill anyone for a "patch of land". His country requires a few months of service, which needn't be in the military. Instead, he's opted to be a perpetual student to avoid the draft and proudly tells of how at 32 his job at least helps him to pay for his studies. Whereas he could serve in another service (like NIA), and actually do something he might find useful, build contacts, make new friends and then get on with his life without having to think about it anymore.
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Re: Military duty

Postby lotzuni » 18 Mar 2009, 14:50

With less than one year in the army, and all the male taiwanese soldiers (add the women soldiers also, if any) to fight against China army, with our junk, outdate weapons bought from US doesn't sound very promising. Besides many politicians and leaders with funds and family (and green cards or whatever) in their hidden agenda doesn't encourage the people here. Those who have the means are doing like the politicians in Taiwan, preparing a safe escape plan.
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Re: Military duty

Postby Anubis » 18 Mar 2009, 14:58

lotzuni wrote:With less than one year in the army, and all the male taiwanese soldiers (add the women soldiers also, if any) to fight against China army, with our junk, outdate weapons bought from US doesn't sound very promising. Besides many politicians and leaders with funds and family (and green cards or whatever) in their hidden agenda doesn't encourage the people here. Those who have the means are doing like the politicians in Taiwan, preparing a safe escape plan.


Sad, but true. :D

I'm glad I can say that I was a soldier once. And a proud one. A dying species, it appears. :neutral:
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Re: Military duty

Postby Poagao » 18 Mar 2009, 15:08

I used to know some guys in filmmaking circles who deliberately gained weight and did other things to their bodies to get out of military service years and years ago (and I wonder how many of them are facing or will face health problems as a result). The way they boasted of doing so, however, seemed to indicate that they actually felt a little ashamed and needed some kind of public approval to feel better about it. Perhaps this is the same kind of thing; I don't know. On the other hand, I do find it interesting that some posters here who haven't served themselves making fun of this guy, though I can of course understand where they are coming from, and from what I hear military service here is much easier and shorter-term than it used to be, and there are also alternative service options.
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Re: Military duty

Postby Satellite TV » 18 Mar 2009, 15:39

Buttercup wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:But as a foreigner in Taiwan it's always easy to say anything about an army you would never get to serve in.


Did you serve in Taiwan's army? How was it? You could provide a lot of helpful info to the young 'uns.


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Re: Military duty

Postby lotzuni » 18 Mar 2009, 16:00

And this thing about a wolf around the corner, I believe the wolf is actually living inside Taiwan. From the peoples taxes, the politicians here, Ah-Bian jr. can get money for his rolex, limos, big wedding feast, diamonds for the wives, daughters studying abroad, houses and apartments in States or wherever else, now the men also need to give their blood to fight the China army because, hey they are the "enemy"! Our tax money is already feeding their luxuries and it is not enough, we also need to give our lives proudly. Legislators earning too much money, many kids can't pay their school food, legislators don't want reduction in their salaries to "help", their help is screaming and passing the blame to someone else, and pocketing money enough to leave the country while telling the people and the soldiers "LOVE TAIWAN" and trying to convince that the enemy is the wolf across the sea that is going to take over our lands, money and life. And many believe.
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Re: Military duty

Postby Satellite TV » 18 Mar 2009, 16:05

lotzuni wrote:And this thing about a wolf around the corner, I believe the wolf is actually living inside Taiwan. From the peoples taxes, the politicians here, Ah-Bian jr. can get money for his rolex, limos, big wedding feast, diamonds for the wives, daughters studying abroad, houses and apartments in States or wherever else, now the men also need to give their blood to fight the China army because, hey they are the "enemy"! Our tax money is already feeding their luxuries and it is not enough, we also need to give our lives proudly. Legislators earning too much money, many kids can't pay their school food, legislators don't want reduction in their salaries to "help", their help is screaming and passing the blame to someone else, and pocketing money enough to leave the country while telling the people and the soldiers "LOVE TAIWAN" and trying to convince that the enemy is the wolf across the sea that is going to take over our lands, money and life. And many believe.


So you need to blame everything else on society in order to not serve some time for your country.

Purerly pathetic imho. Can't wait to see your resume.... Graduated high school, then spent 17 years avoiding the draft by extended studies.. lol

This has nothing to do with the wolf around the corner excuse.
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Re: Military duty

Postby Poagao » 18 Mar 2009, 16:11

Satellite TV wrote:
Buttercup wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:But as a foreigner in Taiwan it's always easy to say anything about an army you would never get to serve in.


Did you serve in Taiwan's army? How was it? You could provide a lot of helpful info to the young 'uns.


It was wonderful. Got to see the country areas.


Didn't know you'd done your service here. Welcome to the club. :cool:
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Re: Military duty

Postby Satellite TV » 18 Mar 2009, 16:34

Poagao wrote: Didn't know you'd done your service here. Welcome to the club. :cool:


Sorry PG I was revving up Buttermelt a bit. Some of the less fortunate such as myself and Cooling Tower did not get to serve full time. If you have served before in an army overseas you cannot do so again in Taiwan. Some of us are too old or too lame to be physically fit enough to serve as frontline troops.

However we can still be called up for the 2 week reservists spells. They have a lottery draw where a few lucky ones get to go play for 2 weeks. Tin Soldiers an all.

Regardless of that... it's not like we ever purposefully shirked our responsibilities. Once you are over 35 you are not generally drafted... and I didnt get my ID card till I was 39 I think. Turning 50 this year so dont need to run around throwing nades every year.

However, my wifes brother who was originally excluded from service as his father died when he was a young teenager and he is the only son, was at 27 year old drafted. As he had previously been studying Medicine, going off to the army was something he just got out of the way.
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