Military duty

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
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Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 19 Mar 2009, 16:13

lotzuni wrote:Until you have been in a real war, fought face to face with the enemy, don't brag. Less than an year in the army doesn't make you more man than the others. If being a soldier is so imoprtant go to Iraq instyead of being here in Taiwan hiding as a buxiban laoban. Besides, dogs that bark rarely bite, so Bismack, fall from your high horse. You never been in a real war!

Really? I've been on that horse and rode it. Not all of us hide out in college forever.

lotzuni wrote:All this criticism means nothing if you're here in Taiwan. You are not participating in the war either, fighting with your fellow men in Iraq are you ? You are watching the war from afar. Doing nothing and brag about manhood stuff and calling me selfish.

Not, it seems, that all that money was well spent either. I trust you'll find we're all here. Care to meet up?
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Re: Military duty

Postby bismarck » 19 Mar 2009, 16:13

TainanCowboy wrote:
lotzuni wrote:All this criticism means nothing if you're here in Taiwan. You are not participating in the war either, fighting with your fellow men in Iraq are you ? You are watching the war from afar. Doing nothing and brag about manhood stuff and calling me selfish.

lotzuni -
Yea, I am in Taiwan. However, I have done my time in the military and beyond. And that time included a "real war" and several more that had all the accouterments of war.
Don't be so fast with your fingers in trying to disparage the experiences of other to justify your own short-comings. You're just digging yourself in deeper.

Well said. :bravo:
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Re: Military duty

Postby lotzuni » 19 Mar 2009, 16:31

bismarck wrote:
TainanCowboy wrote:
lotzuni wrote:All this criticism means nothing if you're here in Taiwan. You are not participating in the war either, fighting with your fellow men in Iraq are you ? You are watching the war from afar. Doing nothing and brag about manhood stuff and calling me selfish.

lotzuni -
Yea, I am in Taiwan. However, I have done my time in the military and beyond. And that time included a "real war" and several more that had all the accouterments of war.
Don't be so fast with your fingers in trying to disparage the experiences of other to justify your own short-comings. You're just digging yourself in deeper.

Well said. :bravo:


You know, posting old war pictures in the web while a real war is still going on in your country and the world, and wasting your time in front of the computer exchanging a discussion war of thoughts in the comfort of your room with AC doesn't make me believe you really care about serving your country. Criticize if you want, but here in Taiwan right now we are doing the same, just exchanging words, you lecture about the rampant violence out there but you are still here, you are not doing much either, and the war is an outgoing on there while China and Taiwan are still in peaceful terms.
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Re: Military duty

Postby cfimages » 19 Mar 2009, 17:31

TainanCowboy wrote:
cfimages wrote:I've no idea what the point of that was bismarck.
Cfi -
Yes...yes I think you do know what that was about. I seem to remember you posting quite knowledgeably about your serving at a service club back in Australia. If I remember correctly, you spoke well about the gents in the club, former Diggers all.

So I do think you know what Bismarck is talking about.



My point was that I don't see what relevance the photos had to the discussion at hand. Yes, I worked in a service club in Aust (as a bartender during my uni years) and the gents there were generally decent men and mostly Diggers. However, they were pretty much all volunteers not conscripts. I don't have an issue with people freely choosing to serve (although I wouldn't do it), I do have a problem with the whole concept of conscription. Forcing people to join to military just because of the country they happen to be born in, or the era, is just plain wrong, morally and ethically, and as such, those who avoid the service should be encouraged.

A war such as WW2, where global freedoms were at stake, is an exception. The vast majority of wars throughout history have been unneccessary, and certainly no wars that have been fought since have been necessary, no matter how the media and politicians like to spin them.
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Re: Military duty

Postby TainanCowboy » 19 Mar 2009, 17:53

lotzuni wrote:You know, posting old war pictures in the web while a real war is still going on in your country and the world, and wasting your time in front of the computer exchanging a discussion war of thoughts in the comfort of your room with AC doesn't make me believe you really care about serving your country. Criticize if you want, but here in Taiwan right now we are doing the same, just exchanging words, you lecture about the rampant violence out there but you are still here, you are not doing much either, and the war is an outgoing on there while China and Taiwan are still in peaceful terms.

Lotzuni -
It would appear that you have run out of coherent responses to support your position.
The point is, you are seeking to justify personal selfishness and cowardice by claiming that it is a position of reason and intellect. Your premise is flawed. While it may be the norm among many here in Taiwan, which is the country under discussion, it is still a flawed view in regards to the betterment of the country. To perpetuate and maintain such a skewered view point degrades the reasoning ability and personal responsibility and accountability of the entire populace.
If done long enough, you have...well...you have an entire country believing that "Its not may baby" should be the national motto.

Wait one!...thats what we have now....darned if it didn't come true.
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Re: Military duty

Postby lotzuni » 19 Mar 2009, 18:46

TainanCowboy wrote:
lotzuni wrote:You know, posting old war pictures in the web while a real war is still going on in your country and the world, and wasting your time in front of the computer exchanging a discussion war of thoughts in the comfort of your room with AC doesn't make me believe you really care about serving your country. Criticize if you want, but here in Taiwan right now we are doing the same, just exchanging words, you lecture about the rampant violence out there but you are still here, you are not doing much either, and the war is an outgoing on there while China and Taiwan are still in peaceful terms.

Lotzuni -
It would appear that you have run out of coherent responses to support your position.
The point is, you are seeking to justify personal selfishness and cowardice by claiming that it is a position of reason and intellect. Your premise is flawed. While it may be the norm among many here in Taiwan, which is the country under discussion, it is still a flawed view in regards to the betterment of the country. To perpetuate and maintain such a skewered view point degrades the reasoning ability and personal responsibility and accountability of the entire populace.
If done long enough, you have...well...you have an entire country believing that "Its not may baby" should be the national motto.

Wait one!...thats what we have now....darned if it didn't come true.


OK if you consider me a coward for not having served the army yet, be it. Your opinion is very mean and rude. In your country people can choose to go or not to the army,, here we are drafted. Will you call your fellow men who didn't volunteer in the army as coward? Then there are millions there, you don't need to call the guys here cowards. And how about you, here in Taiwan all these years during your country's war, come here and call me coward but in my mind the word about people who lecture others for not doing something that he is also not doing is Hypocrite
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Re: Military duty

Postby Chris » 19 Mar 2009, 19:15

lotzuni wrote:And how about you, here in Taiwan all these years during your country's war, come here and call me coward but in my mind the word about people who lecture others for not doing something that he is also not doing is Hypocrite

FYI, lotzuni: you're engaged in a conversation with one of Forumosa's most right-leaning conservatives.
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Re: Military duty

Postby sandman » 19 Mar 2009, 20:13

If Gordon Fucking Broon ever told me I should "serve my country" or "do my duty" I'd do everything in my power to go to his house and stick an icepick deep into his rectum, but I'd sooner spend time in prison than murder some strangers just because he told me I should.
Does that make me a coward, TC?
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Re: Military duty

Postby Buttercup » 19 Mar 2009, 20:18

Would you defend Taiwan?
'Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof'

Before you lovingly craft your PM, make like any writer and consider your audience. With all the information at your disposal, is there any possibility that the recipient will open it? Would your time be better employed?
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Re: Military duty

Postby lbksig » 19 Mar 2009, 21:11

lotzuni wrote:OK if you consider me a coward for not having served the army yet, be it. Your opinion is very mean and rude. In your country people can choose to go or not to the army,, here we are drafted. Will you call your fellow men who didn't volunteer in the army as coward? Then there are millions there, you don't need to call the guys here cowards. And how about you, here in Taiwan all these years during your country's war, come here and call me coward but in my mind the word about people who lecture others for not doing something that he is also not doing is Hypocrite


He's entitled to his opinion as are you. If you didn't notice, TC also stated that he did serve in the US military during a wartime period. Just because we are at a war now and he isn't serving doesn't change the fact that he did serve at one point in time. That aside, you may not have to worry much longer. According to Defense Minister Chen Chao-min, Taiwan is supposed to be phasing out conscription in the next 5 years with the end in 2014.

Chris wrote:FYI, lotzuni: you're engaged in a conversation with one of Forumosa's most right-leaning conservatives.


What does that have to do with anything Chris? Lotzuni is also engaged in an argument with Bismark. Are you gong to call him a right-leaning conservative and take some pot shots at him too?
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