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Dual Citizenship

Who can and cannot be a dual national, as well as the joys and frustrations accompanying that status. Includes ROC Passport and Military Conscription issues
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Dual Citizenship

Postby maxiewawa » 15 Feb 2010, 14:30

Hi there, my first post!

I've had a look around and someone's mentioned that descendant children are elegible for Taiwanese passports. Mum was born in Taiwan, I've never had much interest in obtaining dual citizenship, but now that I'm considering going it might be an issue.

Is someone like me eligible? And what benefits/problems would come from it?

Oh, and I'd be a dual Aussie/ROC citizen if I went through with it.
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Satellite TV » 15 Feb 2010, 20:48

maxiewawa wrote:Hi there, my first post!

I've had a look around and someone's mentioned that descendant children are elegible for Taiwanese passports. Mum was born in Taiwan, I've never had much interest in obtaining dual citizenship, but now that I'm considering going it might be an issue.

Is someone like me eligible? And what benefits/problems would come from it?

Oh, and I'd be a dual Aussie/ROC citizen if I went through with it.


No idea as you dont say how old you are. If over 20 perhaps too late.

My son just lives here on his Australian passport while his old man bein me lives here on my ROC passport.

Luckily he can get an APRC as he will have lived here for the previous 5 years and has a Dad who is an ROC Citizen.

Then he can apply for the scholarship as a foreigner to enter a university here, should he want to study here as a foreigner.
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby IceEagle » 16 Feb 2010, 21:23

maxiewawa wrote:Hi there, my first post!

I've had a look around and someone's mentioned that descendant children are elegible for Taiwanese passports. Mum was born in Taiwan, I've never had much interest in obtaining dual citizenship, but now that I'm considering going it might be an issue.

Is someone like me eligible? And what benefits/problems would come from it?

Oh, and I'd be a dual Aussie/ROC citizen if I went through with it.


Assuming your mother is a ROC/Taiwan citizen, then yes.

But Taiwan does not have jus soli (with the execption of abandoned children and children who would otherwise be stateless), so just being born in Taiwan isn't enough to get citizenship there. Her father had to be a Chinese citizen (or her mother, but only if your mother was born after 1980).

Satellite TV wrote:No idea as you dont say how old you are. If over 20 perhaps too late.


Why?

If he's over 20 he can still get a ROC passport, and then he just needs to establish household registration somehow.

Satellite TV wrote:Then he can apply for the scholarship as a foreigner to enter a university here, should he want to study here as a foreigner.


Dual citizens are seen as only ROC citizens and can not apply to a university as a foreign student (and get any advantages which come with that status).

Additionally, male citizens are conscripted into the military (although if you are over 35 you are exempt from this).
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Satellite TV » 17 Feb 2010, 00:10

IceEagle wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:No idea as you dont say how old you are. If over 20 perhaps too late.


Why? If he's over 20 he can still get a ROC passport, and then he just needs to establish household registration somehow.


No Cannot do so easily OK. Once children reach 20 they are not dependents therefore cannot apply automatically.

There are age limits that apply. You can't just rock up the a Taiwan office and say.. howdy, today I'd like to get an ROC passport because my mom was born there and expext ot be given an ROC passport.

If the OP is not a citizen then how to you expect them to get a household registration? The mother no longer has one if she has been awaty from Taiwan for a lengthy period also.
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Satellite TV » 17 Feb 2010, 00:12

IceEagle wrote:Dual citizens are seen as only ROC citizens and can not apply to a university as a foreign student (and get any advantages which come with that status).

Additionally, male citizens are conscripted into the military (although if you are over 35 you are exempt from this).



But my son although born here with an ROC National mother is not an ROC National and therefor not a dual citizen. :thumbsup:
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby IceEagle » 17 Feb 2010, 08:46

Satellite TV wrote:
IceEagle wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:No idea as you dont say how old you are. If over 20 perhaps too late.


Why? If he's over 20 he can still get a ROC passport, and then he just needs to establish household registration somehow.


No Cannot do so easily OK. Once children reach 20 they are not dependents therefore cannot apply automatically.

There are age limits that apply. You can't just rock up the a Taiwan office and say.. howdy, today I'd like to get an ROC passport because my mom was born there and expext ot be given an ROC passport.


Ok, I didn't realize that. The Passport Act and Enforcement Rules of the Passport Act don't mention an age limit, and I wasn't aware of any administrative regulations regarding it.

I find this incredibly disturbing and problematic. It seems to lead straight into statelessness. An otherwise ROC citizen born overseas, whose parents neglect to register the child, who is a long term resident in the country of birth, who later grows up and turns twenty, and then tries to study abroad, will not be able to get a passport of any country (unless they are able to naturalise in the country that they were born in, or born in a country that grants citizenship on birth).

Satellite TV wrote:If the PO is not a citizen then how to you expect them to get a household registration? The mother no longer has one if she has been awaty from Taiwan for a lengthy period also.


Well, I was under the impression that a ROC citizen who had been away from Taiwan for over 2 years could move back to Taiwan and re-establish their household registration. At which point the OP could (I thought) apply...

If this is not the case, then, this would make Taiwan a country that not only automatically takes away citizenship after a certain period of time, but a country that would do so even if it left the person stateless...

Satellite TV wrote:
IceEagle wrote:Dual citizens are seen as only ROC citizens and can not apply to a university as a foreign student (and get any advantages which come with that status).

Additionally, male citizens are conscripted into the military (although if you are over 35 you are exempt from this).



But my son although born here with an ROC National mother is not an ROC National and therefor not a dual citizen. :thumbsup:


I admit that I don't understand this. Unless he was born before 1980, he should be eligible to be registered as a ROC citizen by birth and get hukou. (On the other hand, he is not required to be registered as such, and if he is never registered then he will never be considered a ROC citizen.)
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Satellite TV » 17 Feb 2010, 15:28

IceEagle wrote:Ok, I didn't realize that. The Passport Act and Enforcement Rules of the Passport Act don't mention an age limit, and I wasn't aware of any administrative regulations regarding it.
Satellite TV wrote:If the OP is not a citizen then how to you expect them to get a household registration? The mother no longer has one if she has been awaty from Taiwan for a lengthy period also.


Well, I was under the impression that a ROC citizen who had been away from Taiwan for over 2 years could move back to Taiwan and re-establish their household registration. At which point the OP could (I thought) apply... I admit that I don't understand this. Unless he was born before 1980, he should be eligible to be registered as a ROC citizen by birth and get hukou. (On the other hand, he is not required to be registered as such, and if he is never registered then he will never be considered a ROC citizen.)


Firstly the passport act does not govern Citizenship. as the OP is not a citizen he cannot apply for a passport. Same for all countries. Secondly the OP has citizenship of the country where he was born so is not stateless. He mentions only he mother is an ROC National not the father, but being born in Australia perhaps means he is an Australian Citizen, so not stateless. Perhaps his father is Australian.

Thirdly even if the mother gets her Hukou her son's name will not be on there is he is not an ROC Citizen. Just as my son's name is not on my Hukou. If over 20 he may not be able to be registered as most countries require registration by descent will the child is a dependent, which in Taiwan is until 20. So even though by Australian Law my son is independent at 18 and can apply for a passport without parents signatures, for his ARC he is considered a dependent until 20, and then he can get his permanent residency because his father is now an ROC Citizen. As he can have that PARC no need to be a citizen, but he can apply for it should he want to. :wink:
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby IceEagle » 17 Feb 2010, 22:40

Satellite TV wrote:Firstly the passport act does not govern Citizenship. as the OP is not a citizen he cannot apply for a passport. Same for all countries.


It does govern the issuance of passports. Article 9 of the Enforcement rules, paragraph 2, lists the required documents for ROC Nationals who lack household registration. Article 11 of the same, more or less lists the same requirements for those who apply while living overseas. And Article 13 of the same, Paragraph 8, says that it is enough to proof the ROC Nationality of at least one parent...

I can only draw three conclusions from this. 1) OP is a citizen if he can prove that one of his parents is. 2) OP is not a citizen but able to get a passport if he can prove one of his parents is, meaning that non-citizens can get passports. 3) These rules are ignored by TECO and the Bureau of Consular Affairs and the OP can not get a passport as a result of that.

Satellite TV wrote:Secondly the OP has citizenship of the country where he was born so is not stateless.
... but being born in Australia perhaps means he is an Australian Citizen, so not stateless. Perhaps his father is Australian.


Right, so this is not applicable to the OP. But your explanation - if applied universially - could cause statelessness to other overseas born ROC citizens who have no other citizenship.

If this applied only to those who were dual citizens or had the citizenship of another country, then this would more or less be in line with the policies of many other countries (such as the Netherlands) and would never cause statelessness. But, if it applies to all, then it makes Taiwan unique.

Satellite TV wrote:He mentions only he mother is an ROC National


Actually, OP has not said this much..

Satellite TV wrote:Thirdly even if the mother gets her Hukou her son's name will not be on there is he is not an ROC Citizen. Just as my son's name is not on my Hukou. If over 20 he may not be able to be registered as most countries require registration by descent will the child is a dependent, which in Taiwan is until 20.


In countries which permit dual citizenship, this is the exception rather than the rule.

If OP is not eligible for a passport and is not a citizen, there is no way to get hukou (unless OP naturalises after staying for 5 years).

If OP is eligible for a passport and has obtained one, then is there a way for him to get hukou? Obviously OP can not naturalise in this case..
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Satellite TV » 18 Feb 2010, 00:07

IceEagle wrote:
Satellite TV wrote:Firstly the passport act does not govern Citizenship. as the OP is not a citizen he cannot apply for a passport. Same for all countries.


It does govern the issuance of passports. Article 9 of the Enforcement rules, paragraph 2, lists the required documents for ROC Nationals who lack household registration.


Yes an as the OP is not an ROC National, perhaps you can explain how this passport act applies to the OP.
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Postby Satellite TV » 18 Feb 2010, 00:12

IceEagle wrote:
Satellite TV wrote: Secondly the OP has citizenship of the country where he was born so is not stateless.
... but being born in Australia perhaps means he is an Australian Citizen, so not stateless. Perhaps his father is Australian.

Right, so this is not applicable to the OP. But your explanation - if applied universially - could cause statelessness to other overseas born ROC citizens who have no other citizenship.


Not the case in this situation is it? The OP has Australian Citizenship. NO need to mention things that do not apply in this case

I can only draw three conclusions from this. 1) OP is a citizen if he can prove that one of his parents is. 2) OP is not a citizen but able to get a passport if he can prove one of his parents is, meaning that non-citizens can get passports. 3) These rules are ignored by TECO and the Bureau of Consular Affairs and the OP can not get a passport as a result of that.


1. Wrong conclusion. Having an ROC parent does not make one a citizen of the ROC for the OP's case.

2. OP may or may not be eligible for an ROC Passport as an overseas CHinese if the op meets certain eligibility rules. SO no you do not get an ROC passport as a non citizen just by showing his mother is an ROC National.

3. TECO and the Bureau of Consular Affairs do not make the rules.

And yes I have been a stateless ROC National so I fully understand about this ok. I have had the ROC Passport without an ID Card, I have later on obtained my Hukou then ID Card ok by completing the one year of residency here to qualify for my Hukou and ID card..

I take it you have helped people go through the processes of obtaining ROC Passports and Hukou as I have?

In your posts you already admitted your are not aware of many of the rules. Well intentioned posts but they are not in fact relevant to the OP's situation.
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