Is Piracy Wrong?

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what do you think?

piracy is wrong
7
28%
copyright laws are wrong
14
56%
I don't know
4
16%
 
Total votes : 25

Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby headhonchoII » 19 May 2012, 13:46

Muzha Man wrote:Damn, my post seems to have disappeared.

I agree with ironlady that there are instances where copying really does hurt. Education is one such field as the author gets no benefits from copying: no increase in fame or ability to secure a better contract.

This is different from many other fields., I suppose it may come down to whether copying increases your fan base. If it doesn't then you lose. If it does then you gain.


But the author needs to embed themselves into the book. Make themselves famous from him. Get those DVDs out and online students coming to their website. Get the big bucks for seminars. Produce extra material for individuals to use.
Not saying I condone copying but you have to work with it not against it.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby Confuzius » 19 May 2012, 15:35

ironlady wrote:
Confuzius wrote:Ironlady claims her ENTIRE books are bought by a teacher and then copied 30+ times and given to students for free. I find this extremely hard to believe for the following reasons:

1. Unless the book is LESS than 30 pp (and 30 pp is honestly stretching it) no teacher is going to do that.
2. No college or university will allow this (against policy...bc of copyright laws)
3. Lets even say that the teacher disregards the college policy, has a HUGE heart, tenure, loads of time, TA's, etc and makes 30 plus copies of each book. If they do it on their faculty card, guess what...it will get noticed. If they pay for it themselves, the copying itself can cost about as much as the book.


You need to get out more before stating what happens or doesn't happen everywhere.
My books are bought by two groups: individuals learning Chinese and teachers teaching Chinese, most of whom work for school districts in the US. Schools have NO CLUE about what is being photocopied and most don't care.
The books range between 75 and 100 pages. And yes, they are copied. Whole. Minus, of course, the "unnecessary stuff" -- like the cover and title page and my bio. Not exactly calculated to build my overall sales.


How do you know this is happening? Are the teachers or students contacting you, or are you just guessing? I have never heard of a teacher making copies like this, public school, unless the students live in the ghetto and cannot afford 7.99...and if that is the case, they are not going to be learning Mandarin.

These books sell for $7.99 retail, not $50. They are class materials (readers), not weighty graduate school tomes. I do not see anything NEAR $7.99 from the sale of a single copy. More like $2.30 or so. It costs money to print books, and Amazon.com wants its cut as well.


I am surprised you see that much from a sale...you have a much better deal than academics get through academic publishers (much, much better deal).

With the rise of technology and ease of copying, if you really do think this phenomenon is making you earn literally HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of times less than you ought to (lets say, 50 teachers make 30 copies each...a year...) then I would say you need to find a different way to spread your work (more online subscription based materials). A 100 p book that goes for 7.99 is quite a steal, I will give you that.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby Ex Animo » 19 May 2012, 18:53

I think there can probably be a line drawn between piracy for profit and piracy for personal use.

If someone downloads a photo of mine without permission because they like it and want it as a desktop background, that's not really a big deal. However if someone downloads a photo and then puts it on their company website or a personal blog that they make ad revenue from, then I'm going to pursue them for copyright violation because they are using my work to make money for themselves.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby ironlady » 19 May 2012, 21:44

Confuzius wrote:How do you know this is happening? Are the teachers or students contacting you, or are you just guessing? I have never heard of a teacher making copies like this, public school, unless the students live in the ghetto and cannot afford 7.99...and if that is the case, they are not going to be learning Mandarin.

You really don't know anything about public schools in the US, do you? Students do not purchase their own books. The books are provided by the school district. And how do I know? Because I have sales figures, which show overwhelmingly single-copy sales, and I talk to people who say how much they like the book and how much their classes like it, and how they are using it with their classes. You can't use a reader with a class in the ways that are being described unless they each have a copy. It's pretty simple.

With the rise of technology and ease of copying, if you really do think this phenomenon is making you earn literally HUNDREDS UPON HUNDREDS of times less than you ought to (lets say, 50 teachers make 30 copies each...a year...) then I would say you need to find a different way to spread your work (more online subscription based materials). A 100 p book that goes for 7.99 is quite a steal, I will give you that.

Problem is that schools are generally not allowed to purchase that sort of materials. The channels through which schools are "allowed" to purchase are very limited. I've lost sales to date because many schools cannot purchase anything off the Internet -- it has to come from an approved vendor. I'll give you an example -- when I was in a local public school as a teacher, I located a source of little mp3 players. They had such a small capacity that no one wanted them for music, so they were selling for $2.99 each. I had an allowance of about $150 for materials and stuff for my classes, so I put in for 30 of them so I could make listening stations and kids could read along with texts while listening. No go. I was given a copy of the approved catalog and told to buy the mp3 player on page whatever, which cost $16.99 each. No way I could get a class set, but that didn't matter -- the source was approved.

Dealing with schools and teachers is a different world. I realize most people don't know about it until they experience it for themselves, but please don't assume that you DO know all about it. These days in the US, everything related to education has to be cleared through someone who generally has nothing to do with what you're teaching. Sometimes you're lucky if that person is even a teacher of any description, or ever has been. It's not about what's practical, it's about what fits "the rules" so that the community will believe the people in charge are doing a "good job" of promoting education and controlling teachers. (But that is a different debate, though a very lively one these days in the US.)
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby trubadour » 21 May 2012, 08:38

Ex Animo wrote:I think there can probably be a line drawn between piracy for profit and piracy for personal use.

If someone downloads a photo of mine without permission because they like it and want it as a desktop background, that's not really a big deal. However if someone downloads a photo and then puts it on their company website or a personal blog that they make ad revenue from, then I'm going to pursue them for copyright violation because they are using my work to make money for themselves.



I thought we covered this in Piracy vs Fraud.
If they try to make it as if it is there work that is untrue, unjust and therefore common fraud.

I maintain that if they provide an 'honest copy' they can make money from that service.
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