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Is Piracy Wrong?

Moderator: Mick

what do you think?

piracy is wrong
7
28%
copyright laws are wrong
14
56%
I don't know
4
16%
 
Total votes : 25

Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby trubadour » 17 May 2012, 12:23

if I grow bannanas and sell them for $10 dollars I might sell some. If you, (copying my business model, my product and service) grow bananas and sell them for $8 - assuming all other things to be equal - you sell more bananas. Should this kind of copying be outlawed? Of course not.

If you don't understand this, you must BE bananas :wink:

The fact that some publishers PROVIDE copyable material explicitly for that purpose surely only supports the argument that being copyable is a feature. In fact, every feature added to a book costs extra. Maybe the people just want simple books with less features for cheaper than it costs to get them copied. If you only wanted to sell more books, this would not be a problem.

Perhaps we to easily forget that the value of a given product is only worth the amount of labour I want to save. I only buy a text book so I don't have to write it myself. Sometimes, it is much better to write it myself. People get stuff copied because its not worth them buying the original. They are going to read it once, draw all over it, etc.

Value is only the labour the customer thinks is worth exchanging their labour for. Otherwise, they just grow their own. Even if I carry a given box of bananas five times around the world, although in my view those bananas represent a hell of a lot of work, it means nothing to anyone else.

& lets face it. Textbooks are usually just recycling the same old grammar patterns, etc. It's not like novel, say, which one can enjoy again and again.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby ironlady » 17 May 2012, 21:01

trubadour wrote:& lets face it. Textbooks are usually just recycling the same old grammar patterns, etc. It's not like novel, say, which one can enjoy again and again.


:loco: Have you read anything I've ever posted on these boards since the beginning of time about teaching?
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby trubadour » 18 May 2012, 07:48

Are you avoiding the point much?
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Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby ironlady » 18 May 2012, 09:00

How many textbooks or other academic copyrights do you hold? How many sets of publishable materials have you produced, start to finish? All your statements ignore the investment required to produce such things. In your mind, evidently, writing a textbook is as easy as copy and paste. I'm able to assure you that is not the case.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby Confuzius » 18 May 2012, 10:20

trubadour wrote:Are you avoiding the point much?



ironlady wrote:How many textbooks or other academic copyrights do you hold? How many sets of publishable materials have you produced, start to finish? All your statements ignore the investment required to produce such things. In your mind, evidently, writing a textbook is as easy as copy and paste. I'm able to assure you that is not the case.


http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/appeals/appeal-to-authority/

Yes, she is avoiding the point via a logical fallacy.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby ironlady » 18 May 2012, 21:04

So, prove me wrong by listing the dozens of books either of you have painstakingly authored.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby Mick » 18 May 2012, 21:36

I'm sorry, the totality of your argument seems to be "They're steeeealing from meeeee".

To just remind you of some points raised.

What copying is acceptable, if I go to an art gallery and sit down and draw a painting is that "stealing", is photocopying a page, or writing one line from your book on the board "stealing"?
As trubadour points out and Rupert Murdoch often laments, he is not able to charge for his content, because if he did no one would would want it and just go elsewhere.
Laws already exist and are very heavy for copyright infringement. To heavy, and too wide ranging.

I can go on and on, companies putting a root kit on my computer to monitor what I do with their software, people paying half their wage to buy generic drugs like insulin, excessive length in copyright, easy of gaining patents and copyright, restrictive business practices through copyright.

Or shall we leave it at "they are stealing from me"? no other considerations need to matter?

Oh, and I didnt even get to SOPA ACTA and PIPA.
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby ceevee369 » 18 May 2012, 21:59

I buy my music via a Russian download site which claims being in a legal favorable situation. This is plausible as they have not been shut down since years, but remain fingerprinted at , accusing the Mob might be behind.
Would this be worse than pirating from clandestine P2P sites ?
I’m a dog shaped ashtray
I’m a shrugging moustache wearing a speedo tuxedo
I’m a movie with no plot, written in the back seat of a piss powered taxi
I’m an imperial armpit, sweating Chianti
I’m a toilet with no seat, flushing tradition down
I'm socialist lingerie
I'm diplomatic techno
I'm gay pastry and racist cappuccino
I’m an army on holiday in a guillotine museum
I’m a painting made of hair, on a nudist beach, eating McDonald's
I’m a novel far too long
I’m a sentimental song
I’m a yellow tooth waltzing with wrap around shades on

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I am Europe
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby Confuzius » 18 May 2012, 22:26

ironlady wrote:So, prove me wrong by listing the dozens of books either of you have painstakingly authored.


In order for you to be 'worth' proving wrong, you need to actually give some proof yourself besides the "I am awesome and know a lot and am awesome, so believe me" speech. If not, there is nothing to disprove...you may very well be super awesome, but you give nothing to back what you say up except the fact of yourself perceived awesomeness gained by experience.

If you just wanna do the "I am awesome" speech, thats fine, no worries, enjoy! (I never said you were wrong btw, just pointed out the fact you totally dodged his questions with a logical fallacy)
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Re: Is Piracy Wrong?

Postby ironlady » 19 May 2012, 00:22

I don't understand what you are having trouble getting here. It has nothing to do with whether I'm special or not. It's simple economics.

I -- or anyone else, for that matter -- spend hours producing a book. This is time that I would otherwise use in another manner to earn money to buy food and pay for my housing and so forth, or to grow food, or whatever. In short, to make a living.

That book is sold using ordinary channels, during which transaction people expect to -- and do -- pay money to receive the book. When they do so, I receive money for each copy that is sold. This money is my remuneration for having used my time to create the book.

Then someone makes 30 illegal copies of the book. If that person had not copied the book, I would have sold 30 additional copies of the book. But I didn't get the money corresponding to 30 copies of my book being sold, because someone copied it illegally. That is a significant hindrance to my even breaking even on the project, let alone making something approaching a profit.

Now multiply that by the number of Chinese programs in the United States that use beginner readers. If every one of those programs buys one copy, rather than 30 copies as a class set, I'm losing a significant amount of money.

People who argue against copyright most generally have never spent the time and energy in creating anything that would be protected under copyright. I know that I had a far more cavalier attitude toward piracy in general before I became an author of teaching materials and a composer of music. So asking the naysayers how many works they have authored, and what percentage of their income comes from their efforts in publishing various things, is very germane to this discussion. Those who stand to lose nothing, and gain free stuff, are obviously going to say "Everything should be public domain!"
Terry Waltz, Ph.D
Click here to Finally Learn Mandarin!
Squid for Brains Learning Games -- not your nainai's flash cards!
...although his father beat him every day, wishing him to learn the speech of Ts'e, it will be impossible for him [at least using current methods]...-Mencius
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